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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 20, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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What a horrifying situation.
I carry all the time too but I doubt it would have mattered in that case.
This isn't about guns.
There are at least two ways I could think of where he could have killed everyone in that theatre without firing a single bullet.
Too bad he didn't have the balls to kill himself. Coward.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 20, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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Thanks for keeping this discussion civil, it is an important topic today.
I do not have a problem with gun ownership. As the father of a 9 year old I would not have a gun in the house. I live in an urban area in which I feel safe without a gun. I carry pepper spray when I travel and when I am in the back country. I want to eventually move to a more rural environment, sadly these area are often worse than the city.
I struggle with the pros and cons. Homes with weapons have a significantly higher rate of suicide and homicide, x5 and x3 respectively. The link to a serious study is below. Of course all gun owners say "that would never happen to me", but it is a sobering statistic nonetheless.
Ron, didn't you just have the shooting incident with your neighbor? What was the smart thing to do, lay low and call the police, which you did. Although I will admit, if I was you, living in the country, I would have some weapon.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
had it not been for the Amrican gun toaters, youd likely be working in a japanese factory right now making less than min wage for slave labor.. That is nonsense, the Japanese did all they could to take out the Fleet in Hawaii, an invasion of mainland, or even hawaii for that matter, would have been ludicrous.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
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"guns are so cool to go and shoot
gotta be ready don't ya know"
And tell everybody about it on the internetz...
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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If you go to a midnight premier of some blockbuster bang-bang-shootem-up flick you might as well make the same kinds of plans as you would lining up to be the first to go shopping at WalMart on the day after Thanksgiving.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
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Are you saying they brought it on themselves?
Count is up to 71.
I wanted to see this flick but think I'll buy it on Blu-ray.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
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"And yes, ive drawn my weapon just recently at my neighbor- BUT i could not discern him to be the shooter or perp from a moment or two into the incident, so he was NOT shot nor shot at."
If you're offering that as proof of your responsible gun ownership and the fact that you'll never have a tragic incident related to your guns, it ain't doin' much for me.
Edit: "All in all, a very advantageous position for someone carrying to take the perp out."
Reilly's comment is spot on.
In a dark theatre, with smoke everywhere? Are you nuts? Seal Team 6 would've had a hard time with those conditions.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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71 people were shot, I doubt any yahoo packing a concealed weapon would have done much against that type of firepower especially if the shooter has a bullet proof vest. Some of you dipshits just like to argue.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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I'm 'resistant' to a lot of the bullshit in the world these days, Ron.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:22pm PT
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they are now saying he had two glocks, a shotgun, and an AR15
12 dead, 59 wounded now
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:22pm PT
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Ron those seats aren't cover.. A 22 might get through one.
The ground is likely the most effective cover you have in that situation and from a ground position it would be hard to see.
This was over in about a minute hearing stories from a couple eyewitnesses. One eyewitness said all he saw was a few muzzle flashes in the corner before he got on the ground. Never really saw the shooter clearly.
But yeah it's too bad someone didnt have a shot on the guy.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
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"lets talk about the theatre in a tactical sense. PLENTY of cover- every row of seats, the floor and the isles- along with darkness of which the shooter had just come into."
Really? You think these were ideal conditions for an armed citizen (with likely rudimentary training & equipment at best) to have taken out the perp without hurting anyone else?
Ron, did you read the account of how this went down? It was in the middle of the movie, during a shoot-out scene...the perp gets up and pops a smokebomb...and during confusion (many thought it was some kind of stunt related to the premiere) the perp starts capping as many as he can, esp. those headed for the exits.
Those are ideal 'tactical' conditions for a bystander?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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And its not the first time ive reacted properly in potentially lethal situations. Worry not man,, i gotcha covered..
do tell
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Ron, you are as oblivious to subtle irony as I am sometimes. If you don't see the sarcasm in my comment about Seal Team 6, well, I don't know what to tell you, buddy.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
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I wish the world would melt all the guns ever made into a giant memorial
Sure...then you'll be askin' for all of our pocket knives and kitchen cutlery next....no thanks i'll take my chances with the fuktards that do this shite.
Condolences to family and friends involved.
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Cragar
Trad climber
MSLA - MT
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
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When was the last time there was a Mary Poppins movie? Violence sells hella. Video games, movies, the TV...it isn't just about guns.
Insanely sad event :(
well said DMT!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
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Ron, you are as oblivious to subtle irony
guess we all have to just be more direct to be understood more better
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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^MAD indeed. People need food, shelter, and love to survive. Not guns.
We are a sick nation in a sick world. The medicine to heal us has nothing to do with gunpowder.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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Just to be clear-
Priority of questions;
1) Can I escape?
2) If not, can I fortify my position?
3) If not, can I hide?
4) If not, how can I eliminate the threat?
It is not a matter of jumping in to play hero because you are packing heat.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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I don't know, have or propose a solution to this problem. It's sad on days like this when it's get in our face.
The reality though is less often in our face and there are much more serious problems facing our nations citizens. I simply don't see gun violence problem solving as worth the effort when there much bigger and doable solutions to much bigger problems that we should address long before this one.
You want to save American lives? People suffering and dying every day?
Keeping perspective is perhaps not easy but it is important I think.
I'd love to see this Nation prioritize it's resources in ways that fit a realistic perspective on what our problems really are.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
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Agree with DMT. One other point: where did this guy get the bullet proof vest and tear gas? AFAIK those are not things you can get licenses for. Hopefully when they interrogate this guy he will give up the people who sold him that stuff.
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