Bolt chopping at Sugarloaf

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GhoulweJ

Trad climber

El Dorado Hills, CA

Apr 25, 2012 - 11:30am PT

Ron,
That 2 year old is a girl...
Easy with "sackage"

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Apr 25, 2012 - 11:34am PT

Isn't that on some random rock?

I have no idea why guys bolt every single boulder in the area. If you are a skilled climber, why not go put up a line on one of those unclimbed Sierra walls? Why bother putting up a 2 bolt 20ft route? There is no beauty in those lines. They are lame, IMO.

Branscomb

Trad climber

Lander, WY

Apr 25, 2012 - 11:47am PT

I believe that picture is of Petch spotting his daughter, so, yeah, definitely not sackage!

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Apr 25, 2012 - 12:08pm PT

Would it be uncool to get pissed if a two year old girl chopped yer route?

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 25, 2012 - 12:12pm PT

(continuation of post39, 60, 76, 93) I began to realize, as Mr. McWitt droned on and on for what seemed like hours, describing not just his routes, but every single route, along with each routes history, its flaws, etc., that somethings were missing. Bill had told me he had rapped off, yet there wasn't a cord anywhere on the skirt of stone.So i asked, "Bill, you said you rapped, where's the cord"?. He replied," You know, when the old man ordered me to rap off i noticed, for the first time in 35 years that i didn't have a single piece of equipment, not a rope, and not even shoes. So i asked him, exactly how do i get down. He told me that i no longer needed to be concerned with gravity and to use my imagination.And that's what i did, i just leaned back and slid down an invisible cord". "o.k., o.k., i can see that happening, now what happened to all the bolts Mr. McWitt"? He said, "it would be much easier to explain everything if we walk up to the foot". "O.k." i said, as i followed the two up the hill.( I must, in good conscience, warn anyone who might be listening that the story takes a decidedly weird turn from here, and they might want to tune out or risk suffering permanent psychological damage) As i followed, i noticed they both now stood at equal height, not Bill's original height, and they both sported those ridiculously large quivering ears. Anyway were at the base, and Bill said, "I cleared the clouds and two things happened, first i realized i had slid off the end of my invisible cord and second i took aim at the wanker erasing my route". "That's right", Mr. McWitt chimed in, "he hit me harder than a freight train,we hit hard ground at terminal velocity. By all rights i should have been splattered flatter than a smegma, or at the very least i should have been a very swollen guy, with compound fractures poking out all over my body. In stead Bill helped me up, dusted me off, and i was fine". There i am, taking this all in, looking over the scene and i see Bill caressing the stone, putting his hands under a large flake as if under a skirt. A thought occurred to me-This guy has been soloing above the clouds for 35 years now, so that means he hasn't been layed in what-35 years? Mr. McWitt continues his scrawl, "I was blinded by the same light that you saw, and just like with you it coalesced into the most beautiful 400' tall woman i have ever seen this side of the Amazon. That's when (oops got to go, just a little bit to finish a little later)

klk

Trad climber

cali

Apr 25, 2012 - 12:13pm PT

now wouold be a good time to remind everyone how and why bolted routes came to be here in the US. They were to INCREASE THE RATINGS OF CLIMABLE ROUTES AND FACES! 5.10 and up basically.

Swing and a miss. The early uses of expansion bolts-- and they seem to have appeared in the 1940s if not occasionally earlier --were on aid climbs esp. in granite areas like Yos. THe era of big wall climbing was the point at which they were popularized.

But it doesn't particularly matter for the debate on this thread. This thread is a real slow-rolling cluster even by the generous standards of the typical bolting st thread.

I'm with the poster above who suggested that it either needs more specific content or simply ought to be deleted. At the moment, all it does is flag bolt wars at SUgarloaf for any authorities trolling the net.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

merced, california

Apr 25, 2012 - 12:24pm PT

Hey, Kev. You don't keep sh#t like this local, the place is on a heavily traveled route, many mor people go there than anyone realizes, and so it is not a local issue, not at all. As for lack of class, SORRY IF IT OFFENDS YOU, DICKWAD.

kev

climber

A pile of dirt.

Apr 25, 2012 - 01:30pm PT

Mouse,

Aww, you're panties are in a bunch - so sad.

Wow, you started posting here (under this name at least) on March 30th!
It takes sac to hide behind a new user name :)

kev

throwpie

Trad climber

Berkeley

Apr 25, 2012 - 01:48pm PT

The Mouse just dropped in here a few days ago. I've known Mouse a long time and he is a true original...and not prone to hiding behind anything.

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Apr 25, 2012 - 02:49pm PT

Too much respect for the FA and not enough respect for the stone is lame.

I don't care if you've ever heard the old "Leave it til someone better comes along" statement or not.
It ought to be in a climbers DNA, to have some fecking respect for the places he trods.

What happened to the love of wilderness and mountains? Do we have to take the fecking gym every-gawd-damn-where?

F*#k me, what a bunch of posers.

drill drill drill, tap tap tap, chop chop chop.

John Muir and Ed Abbey just puked on each others graves.

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 25, 2012 - 02:58pm PT

(continuation of post39, 60, 76, 93, 112 ) " a melancholy descended on me like a thick fog. I was sadder than i had ever been in my whole life as i realized how arrogant i was in treating her like a whore while establishing tomorrows routes today".At this point, seeing that he was about to wind up into another interminable scrawl, i interrupted,"Mr. McWitt, can you please get to the point, this aint Taco this is my dream or nightmare,i don't know which, so please finish before i wake up". Meanwhile, Bill had wandered over to the brand new 24 volt Bosch drill/driver He seemed fascinated with the technology as he applied bit to stone in a manner more like applying a sex toy to his girlfreind than masonry work.Mr. McWitt continued, "In essence i thought of my kids and there kids connected umbilical cord to umbilical cord like an endlessly long climbing rope stretching into the future.I mean, i couldn't rightly rob the kids of there future, could i? So i proceeded, with the help of my new friend Bill, to remove every single bolt, all 300+ of them, from every single route except the 2 old 1/4 inchers on Tapestry. She's almost virgin again", he concluded as he handed Bill, who was already roped up ,the rack of some 300+ bolts. A moment later Bill stopped 5 feet off the ground, the Bosch rigidly attached to the front of his harness, he sighed in pleasure as the bit penetrated the stone. I was about to protest that this doesn't make any sense when i heard the USFS LEO, who had snuck up behind me, announce, " You are under arrest for suspicion of thinking about impeding the implementation of section 303c; Any and all natural rock features located under any skies of the U.S.A. will hereby be reduced to gym quality standards of safety by duly deputized..... And that's it. I awoke in my bed and looked out the window at the first sunlight of dawn filtering through the newly unfurled leaves on the trees. Did any of it make any sense at all, was there a lesson in there to be learned ? I doubt it. Then i noticed the sounds of the the ceiling fan whirring overhead coupled with the rata-tat-tat of a pair of busy woodpeckers-it sounded identical to the Bosch

throwpie

Trad climber

Berkeley

Apr 25, 2012 - 02:58pm PT

agreed Survival. The solution ? A toprope or leave it alone.

GoMZ

Trad climber

Eastern Sierra

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:01pm PT

GhoulweJ, that is indeed the route I'm talking about. The first clip (six feet off the ground) now sports 1 smashed hanger right next to a newly placed bolt. Gotta put part of the blame for this on the choppers for not pulling the bolt. Now there are two pieces of hardware there. (I thought it was a TR anchor 6 feet off the deck at first:-)

Your chimney route is really fun BTW Just the right amount of protection if you ask me. I don't know about the new anchor on it now though, seems to take away from the route IMO.

Steve

michaeld

Sport climber

Sacramento

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:19pm PT

I don't know you Ron, or Rick Sumner, but every time you post it seems like your cupping his balls.

Why don't many old people have good grammar? My eyes bled trying to read Rick Sumner's posts. All I read from it was;

His ethics are different than Aidan's,
He likes bolting on granite,
He can pull a rope apart with my bare hands.

Did you patent Sugarloaf?

What about Paul Crawford's 12d face climb to the left of Fingerlocker, does that have enough bolts to make it into your cool club?

Sh*t, might as well chop that tree next to Fingerlocker since people are using it to aid the first few feet. That's some bad ethics right there.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:28pm PT

It's not about 'respecting or protecting the stone'. The stone is inanimate folks. It's about respecting other people's experiences and preserving the resource for other people.

You don't retrobolt a climb because that disrespects the FA's vision for the climb.
You don't bolt a crack because it disrespects the people who want to climb it on gear.
You don't squeeze job a route in because it detracts from the earlier routes nearby.

But people don't chop a bolted 5.3 (if there really is one) to protect the stone or someone else's experience. It may be done for visual impact, but more likely it was for ego or a misguided attempt to 'protect the stone' or someone thinking their view of what climbing is is the only one that matters. A bolted 5.3 is obviously for first time leaders, I'd love to get my 10 year old on a bolted 5.3 for his first lead. How does a bolted 5.3 detract from anyone else's experience? (unless as mentioned it's in a bad spot and a visual eyesore).

There is credence to the statement wait until your skill rises to the challenge, but I believe many climbs should have protection that reflects the nature and difficulty of the climb. All 5.9 face climbs should not be bolted as R/X rated climbs because a 5.13 climber did them first. Sure some of them should be that way as a mental challenge, but some of them should be bolted so they are a reasonable challenge for 5.9 climbers.

As with most bolting controversies it really comes down to the circumstances of the actual climb, so there's not enough info for me to say if this chopping was justified or not.

michaeld

Sport climber

Sacramento

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:31pm PT

How does a bolted 5.3 detract from anyone else's experience?

Some guy walking up it trips on the bolt.
That'd detract my experience, and probably send me knee first into a hard place.

But yes. I agree with you. 13+ climbers should chop all 5.11- routes.

michaeld

Sport climber

Sacramento

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:37pm PT

Ron's gonna be on top of the loaf with binoculars.

He's gonna spot someone doing a lead on a bolted route, and call Rick Sumner to run over and rip the rope in half.

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Apr 25, 2012 - 03:37pm PT

It's not about 'respecting or protecting the stone'. The stone is inanimate folks. It's about respecting other people's experiences and preserving the resource for other people.

Of course it's about respecting the stone also. The inanimate stone deserves as much respect as the average micro-blip of a climbers experience, from a purely aesthetic viewpoint.