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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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How do you know that you exist?
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Why would anyone expect that praying to God to deviate from his plan would be expected to work? If your are to die then that is it. It's your time. No amount of prayer would help you. If it is not your time and your incurable disease is just a test (or whatever) then nobody could pray for you and you'd still make it through. God would not change his plans for you nor me. Praying FOR anything is stupid and greedy. Find your strength within because that's where it was placed when you started your existance.
And why are most of you so arogant to suggest that you understand anything about why life is here on earth? You are human and you are an animal and even if there is no God, you would have invented one thousands of years ago just to feel better about your making no real difference in the world and having no place to go when you die.
Dave
PS: I love this religious stuff. So many people making up so much sh#t about things they cannot possibly know about and then acting like they alone have been chosen to speak for God and they alone are right.
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WBraun
climber
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Tell me more about what you know about God, Dave ......
Hey where did everyone go? Hahaha
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I'd be the first to agree that organized Religions have done as much harm as good (and maybe that's generous) and I sympathize with those who have soured on it.
Prayer might be beneficial and useful for somethings, like deepening our spiritual side and opening our hearts, but not as useful in changing how our diseases and finances turn out. I just don't know that details.
But I do know this:
Over the past 27 years, there have been numerous times when I've been in a crowded noisy restaraunt and been busy eating. I've been just about to shovel another bite of food in my mouth when I feel a sudden strange electricity in the air, a subtle but very noticable shift, like the feeling that somebody is standing 2 inches right behind you, a sensing of something.
The feeling has stopped me from taking the bite and made me look around. I always see the same thing: some group of people somewhere in the restaraunt is bowing their heads and saying grace. Once I spot them (and they were almost always out of my peripheral vision and no way their prayers could have been noted by hearing them or the any obvious changes) I notice that once they're finished with their prayers, the vibe goes back to normal and I just go back to eating.
This has happened to me so many times that I feel that there really must be "Something" to this practice of praying over the food, even though I don't usually do it myself, nor do I know what it accomplishes. I like my sex, drugs, and rock and roll as much as the next guy, but I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There is something profound in prayer. Just don't know exactly what and how much.
FWIW
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Hey hey where'd you go Mr.F, hehe
Even in this material universe, the inhabitants of some planets are far superior to those on other planets. For example, people on earth practice mystic yoga for achieving wonderful powers, but people on the planet called Siddhaloka have these great yogic powers naturally. On earth it is natural that a bird can fly; but we cannot, except with costly machines. However, on such planets as Siddhaloka, the residents can fly even from one planet to another without machines. They can go to other planets simply at will.
Better start praying ......
The scientists have a theory that they can produce a machine that will travel at the speed of light.
They say that, but they will never be able to do it.
Yet they speak big, big words, simply to take money from the taxpayers.
They say that science proves everything. The scientist has proved everything except what he is. That he does not know. And why does he die? That also he does not know. That is the extent of his knowledge.
So sorry Mr. scientists ............
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May I be a guard for those who are protectorless,
A guide for those who journey on the road;
For those who wish to go across the water,
May I be a boat, a raft, a bridge.
May I be an isle for those who yearn for landfall,
And a lamp for those who long for light;
For those who need a resting place, a bed,
For all who need a servant, may I be a slave.
May I be the wishing jewel, the vase of plenty,
A word of power, and the supreme remedy.
May I be the trees of miracles,
And for every being, the abundant cow.
Like the great earth and the other elements,
Enduring as the sky itself endures,
For the boundless multitude of living beings,
May I be the ground and vessel of their life.
Thus, for every single thing that lives,
In number like the boundless reaches of the sky,
May I be their sustenance and nourishment
Until they pass beyond the bounds of suffering
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Weenis
Trad climber
Tel Aviv
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Cool bumper sticker in town: If you don't pray in my school, I won't think in your church.
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coldclimb
climber
Wasilla, Alaska
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I dunno much about science. All I know is my own experiences, and from those I've found that prayer does have power to heal, and power to do a lot of other things. But heck, you're free to believe whatever you want to believe, who am I to tell anyone what they should do?
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WBraun
climber
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So .......
Spiritual life is a science provable through reason and logic, not a matter of mere sentiment or blind faith.
The whole materialistic world, based on the conception of the material body as the self, is ignorant of the science of God. The materialist is always busy working for the welfare of the material body, not only his own but also those of his children, kinsmen, community men, countrymen, etc. The materialists have many branches of philanthropic and altruistic activities from a political, national and international angle of vision, but none of the field work can go beyond the jurisdiction of the misconception of identifying the material body with the spirit soul.
Unless, therefore, one is saved from the wrong conception of the body and the soul, there is no knowledge of Godhead, and unless there is knowledge of God, all advancement of material civilization, however dazzling, should be considered a failure.
So there is an ascending process of gaining knowledge and a descending process.
The ascending process will never be successful, because it relies on information gathered through the senses, and the senses are imperfect. So we accept the descending process.
God cannot be known by the inductive process. Therefore He is called adhoksaja, which means "unknowable by direct perception." The scientists say there is no God, because they are trying to understand by direct perception. But He is adhoksaja; therefore the scientists are ignorant of God because they are missing the method of knowing Him.
In order to understand transcendental science, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master, hear from him submissively, and render service to him. Lord Krsna explains this in the Bhagavad-gita (4.34): tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.
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TC
Social climber
No matter where you go, there you are.
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Was Einstein an athiest?
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murcy
climber
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I appreciate the reverence and the spirituality of the believers, and I am sure that I can learn from it.
But subtract the actual certainty that there's this magic guy in the sky, and what do you lose?
Nothing, far as I can see. You have reverence for nature, for humanity, not for some cosmic superhero.
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WBraun
climber
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what do you lose?
Your soul ......
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2006 - 02:30am PT
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Werner, what would be the ramifications (personal or general) of there being no god. Would that really be a problem (personally or in general)?
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WBraun
climber
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We simply would not exist.
For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He is unborn, eternal, ever existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
I am the Supersoul, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings." Lord Krishna (Bg. 10.20)
"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be." Lord Krishna (Bg. 9.11)
So the Lord, the living entity, the nature, material nature, and time, they are all eternal. But the other item, karma, is not eternal. The effects of karma or activity may be very old. We are suffering or enjoying the results of our activities from a time immemorial, but still, we can change the result of our karma, or activity. That will depend on our perfect knowledge.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2006 - 03:29pm PT
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Mostly here I give the routes descriptions and topos on this subject matter.
It's up to you to do the climb, and all you want is me to hold your hand. It isn't going to happen that way.
Not any real climbers in this thread?
Just a bunch of monday morning quarterbacks and speculators that never go out the door.
Suppose a tree is reflected by the bank of a river. So if somebody dives into the river and tries to take fruit from that tree, it will not be possible because that is reflection. One has to go to the real tree.
By ...........
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2006 - 01:22pm PT
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And science found that those Atoms were just vibrating energy, all the same kind of energy, just as some mystical religions predicted a thousand years ago.
Not only that but the components of these atoms are so widely separated that everything is 99+% space and the entire mass of the Earth could be compressed in a Black Hole to way smaller than a tennis ball.
Plus our senses don't remotely pick up all that is going on around us beyond the visible spectrum of light. Cell calls, cosmic rays, TV Channels, infrared.
The world is an Illusion just as much in Science as in Religion
Peace
karl
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