Largest Study of Prayer to Date Finds No Power to Heal

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healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 31, 2006 - 06:00am PT

[url="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-prayer31mar31,1,3169049.story?coll=la-headlines-nation"]Largest Study of Prayer to Date Finds It Has No Power to Heal
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TradIsGood

Trad climber

Gunks end of country

Mar 31, 2006 - 06:27am PT

Placebos work much better.

todd-gordon

climber

Mar 31, 2006 - 10:13am PT

We prayed to Saint Anthony once to help us find our car keys.....and then we found them........proof that these expensive, jaded, biased, heathen studies are a bunch of crap......give your study to God when you get to the pearly gates on judgement day, see what he(or she) has to say....

todd-gordon

climber

Mar 31, 2006 - 10:38am PT

Maybe you need to get yourself about 50 feet out from your last protection piece, with a groundfall potential.... and then tell me about if prayer works or not......(Climbing can make you very religous and get you in touch with God....that is why many people climb on a Sunday......)

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Mar 31, 2006 - 10:38am PT

maybe the idea is to get people to stop indoctrinating kids w/ the ideas in the first place. if the they didn't have any preconcieved notions of prayer, that deathbed moment might not be such a let down.

edit after reading todd's post

maybe that's why i'm such a skeptic, near death has rarely brought me any enlightenement, generally just the feeling that i had just done something really stupid, and as a result, would soon be decomposing in the ground, just like any other living thing on this planet, no trumpets, angels or white lights in my experience

TradIsGood

Trad climber

Gunks end of country

Mar 31, 2006 - 10:54am PT

They only tested on heart patients. Of course, it does not work there!

All the rest of the problems still untested.

Then, of course, there is always the position taken by Blaise Pascal on the subject (ok not on prayer, but on belief).

Grug

Trad climber

Golden, Colorado

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:14am PT

No offense Todd-Gordon, but every time I hear the variations on 'you'll naturally believe in God or prayer (or whatever) when you're facing possible death', I cringe. Believing or disbelieving isn't a matter of convenience or circumstance.

Hootervillian

climber

the Hooterville World-Guardian

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:22am PT

i love the empowering feeling of being put on this planet for a reason. it's a beautiful concept. 'individuality' without the often 'guilty' burden of my righteous self.

†hanks for the pick up JC. for a minute there i thought they were going to make me clean up my mess before i split.

billygoat

climber

3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:23am PT

"Dr. Herbert Benson, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and one of the study's lead researchers, added: "Nothing this study has produced should interfere with people praying for each other.""

noshoesnoshirt

climber

deskville

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:45am PT

I prey upon the weak and elderly; works like a charm.

Todd Gordon

Trad climber

Joshua Tree, Cal

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:47am PT

You guys are too cynical.......do what everyone else does....pull out God when you need him......look at our churches.....a sea of grey hair;....young people don't need God as much as older people, who will be meeting their maker before the young ones. I had this discussion with Tucker reciently.......he says the beieves in prayer......he prays the price of beer won't go up too high......(let's be practical here...).......(those of you who say there aint' no God to pray to.........see ya in hell....all our friends will be there.......)

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Mar 31, 2006 - 11:59am PT

What's that Twain quote? Go to heaven for the climate, go to hell for the company?

can't say

Social climber

Pasadena CA

Mar 31, 2006 - 12:27pm PT

Trashman, I don't think Todd was referring to some devine grace to save his sorry ass should he pitch and get all mussied up, but more along the lines of calling on any and all means possible to keep from ending up that way.

I by no means am a religious person, but a few times I have been in dire straights I found myself saying a private mantra to make it thru safe. When I was guiding in the alps back in the mid 70s I was shepharding a hiking group from hut to hut when we got caught in a storm. Sheet lighting was cracking off all over the place, with bolt lighting hitting nearby. The hair on every part of my body was standing on end from all the static electricy. We were in an open area with no where to take refuge. I was totally gripped. I said my prayer to help me get out of there, it wasn't about confessing my sins or making some form of conversion. It was about saving my sorry ass pure and simple.

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Mar 31, 2006 - 01:01pm PT

that's the kind of stuff that makes me wonder if i have a broken circuit upstairs or something.

nearly the same situation, lander instead of europe, took too long walking back from the crag in bad weather, nowhere to hide. after multiple near misses, the hike culminates in a strike so close that my brother got knocked onto his ass, and my girlfriend couldn't feel her right arm, shoulder or butt for the next day or so. at that moment, and during the hours of reflection afterwards, i didn't feel anything.

no greater power, no curiosity, no need for support, just felt incredibly stupid, and guilty that i had put loved ones out there w/ me in that situation. in all the time leading up to it, i didn't feel like there was anything i could do think or say that would change anything.

only hope i'm brave enough to have the same outlook as i get older

John Vawter

Social climber

San Diego

Mar 31, 2006 - 01:24pm PT

You don't have to be an athiest to think prayer doesn't aid healing.

By the way, this study did find a correlation: more of those who knew they were being prayed for had post-op complications (59%) than those who were told that prayers may or may not have been said for them (51%). They said it could be a fluke, or it might be related to the higher expectations for recovery patients had because they knew they were being prayed for.

WoodySt

Trad climber

Riverside

Mar 31, 2006 - 01:25pm PT

Prayer is important to those who believe in it. It's calming and assists in maintaining a positive attitude in difficult situations. Having a positive attitude in trying circumstances--particularily illness--is clearly beneficial.
I don't personally believe that one will get direct help through a higher power through prayer; but, for those who do, it can be a powerful moral factor; and that is important.
What I find curious is the rapidity and glee that some get by debunking the faith of others. Maybe a little insecurity here; maybe a little resentment that there are those that can find a benefit in something that you can't; maybe you protest too much.

WBraun

climber

Mar 31, 2006 - 02:04pm PT

Prayer will heal the soul. It will ultimately depend on God if he will heal our defective body. To ask for material opulences (heal the body, money, power, prestige, etc.) is not the aim of prayer, and is the aim of neophytes.

Pure devotion means to pray to the Lord, begging some service. "My Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." That is the perfection of life, when one is engaged in the service of the Lord in love.

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Mar 31, 2006 - 02:32pm PT

Woody sez
"What I find curious is the rapidity and glee that some get by debunking the faith of others. Maybe a little insecurity here; maybe a little resentment that there are those that can find a benefit in something that you can't; maybe you protest too much."

keep your religion out of my science/laws, and i'll reciprocate.

but . . . , since i'm constantly listening to the religous right telling me what to do w/ my life through legislation, and have to listen to psuedo-science like intelligent design being debated, then yes, i'm going to laugh when the discipline they're trying to shoehorn their beliefs into soundly rejects they're reasoning.