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WBraun
climber
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The guy was an idiot. Totally stupid.
You don't walk away or try to flee when they say stop no matter how right you think you are.
You never know what LEO is going to do if you try to leave or flee when they say stop or detain you.
All the rules and regulations are useless to you at that moment in time.
If you want to flee, go ahead, but then be ready for whatever they throw at you, whether they are right or wrong or you are right or wrong.
Cry like girl later because you're a stupid pussy.
Take it like a pro if you decide to flee.
People are so stupid.
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DFrench
Trad climber
Rockport, MA
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fattrad,
Your self-righteous verbal diarrhea is deplorable and a disgrace to your profession.
Thank you that is all.
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WBraun
climber
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No
The moral of the story is when people run and then face the consequences of that act they cry like little girls afterward.
From LEO's side they see you as unpredictable and dangerous at first encounter.
They have no clue what you're going to be like at first.
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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I wonder if that LEO lady's partner could predict that she would accidentally discharge her firearm within inches of a detained suspect's head.
Or that as#@&%e DEA agent who fired a round into the wall of an elementary school classroom?
Youtube it if you don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think the Montanan should have "fled", but if you can't deal with that situation without tazing him in the back then maybe pick a different line of work.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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There are NO documented cases where the deployment of a taser has been the cause of death in any individual. It may be a stressor that may contribute to the death, but has never been the cause.
Crimper- many agencies are getting away from the UoF continuem and going to lethal/ less lethal force policy. With many of those if you are allowed to use less lethal options you can use any tool on your belt. With lethal you are allowed to use any type of force which has a very good chance of killing someone. Our policy is very restrictive towards tasers, while our OC policy is very liberal.
Elcap- yes I am in law enforcement and have been so for nearly 20 years. I have had to use deadly force, and I have used a taser. Since I seemed to have offended you I appolagize. What I meant by cops have a split second to react is a subject will do something, try to flee try to fight or whatever. Once the person does what ever they are going to do the officer must quickly decided what must be done- talk, grab, use of force. We do not have the luxury of sitting around and trying to figure out what needs to be done. We must react very quickly period. There are people who would kill me just because I wear a uniform. I have a family to get home to and will do what it takes to survive. All less lethal weapons have to potential to kill someone but most likely they won't. I am not trying to justify the rangers actions and have said twice I would not have reacted that way. I am trying to give a different perspective to the debate. I do everything I can not to use force but sometimes I must. Everytime I do it is swift violent and ugly. Not because it was my choice but because I am an actor in someone else's play.
Eric
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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Fattrad,
Me too. But only if she's hot.
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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Check out the article "Taser Use in Restraint-Related Deaths"
Here's part of the abstract:
Results. Of 75 cases identified, 37 (49.3%) had autopsy reports available for review. All cases involved men, with ages ranging from 18 to 50 years. Cardiovascular disease was found in 54.1%. Illegal substance use was found on toxicology screening for 78.4%; within that group, 86.2% were found to have been using stimulants. A diagnosis of excited delirium was given for 75.7% of the cases. Use of a Taser was considered a potential or contributory cause of death in 27%.
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10903120600884863
What saddens me is that the LEO's will probably look at this and say "If they weren't on illegal drugs they wouldn't have died". But the public is probably saying "if they didn't get tased they wouldn't have died".
Not sure who's right.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Thanks Eric! Given some of the continuum I'd seen in the past, that seems a good idea. Some were so complex, I couldn't make heads or tails of them.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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I have seen several of those studies. I have yet to see one that showed the taser was the proximate cod. May have contributed yes but not cod
Eric
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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I'm not sure the criteria for a diagnosis of "excited delirium" but I do know that even when I haven't been breaking the law I get a visceral adrenaline rush when I drive by a speed trap or am approached by an officer.
I can't imagine what kind of "delirium" I would feel if I was being pursued/restrained/tased whether I was guilty of anything or not!
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Add a stimulant to that and your body overloads and goes into cardiac arrest or overheats and shuts down. Isn't meth a great thing
Eric
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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By stimulant do you happen to mean an electric shock? (jk)
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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It doesn't help. The idea behind the taser is to minimize injuries to everyone. Unfortunately bad things sometimes happen
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Fatty were you the reason they got rid of it??? :)
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DFrench
Trad climber
Earth
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Had to look up what a sap was. Yikes! Lets hope google images is the closest I ever come to one of those.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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this is a two part question,
one point for each correct answer,
has anybody been tasered in the taters?
and
did it hurt?
good luck.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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that guy could have been the Zodiac Killer,
jus sayin,
what if a mountain lion ate the guy as he was trying to run away,
would he get help from the LEO on duty?
or would that lion rip that guy to shreds, including the taters, which are the first to be eaten,
does climbing give you da da, da dad da da diahreahea?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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here are NO documented cases where the deployment of a taser has been the cause of death in any individual. It may be a stressor that may contribute to the death, but has never been the cause.
Completely full of sh#t. Kinda like saying "well, a gun never killed anyone, it was blood loss. The bullet may have been a stressor that contributed, but has never been the cause, since the cause was blood loss".
There are at least a dozen cases in the last five years where healthy individuals with no cns stimulants in their system were murdered by trigger happy cops who decided to taze them over and over because they're running a Cartman Respect My Authoritah complex.
Somebody else might buy your line of BS, but it ain't sellin' with me partner. I have a journalist acquaintance who writes about exactly such cases.
I do everything I can not to use force but sometimes I must
And I commend you for it. That is the perspective that is missing from way too many in your profession.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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DFrench- yes you are right some LEOs may say if he wasn't high.... And the public is going to say if he wasn't tased..... My take on it is that sometimes police must use force and sometimes people die when we use force. Rarely do we intend to kill anyone. The loss of any life is always a tragedy. Cops that are in the job to kill people need to be out of law enforcement. I am not trying to say that taser is always safe and should be used for every use of force. My argument is that is that tasers are typically not lethal weapons. When people say they are deadly it just isn't the case.
Like any new gadget the police get they tend to want to use it A LOT. Many cops are using it in place of every other tool on our batman belts. Officers have missed used them just like they have misused every other tool we have. The taser is just one tool among several that we choose from. Tasers are not always the right tool for the job, just as stopper may be a better choice than a cam.
Hope this is making sense.
DMT-does this make me sound less like a tabacco lawyer? If not I need to change jobs.
As for ever seeing anyone get tased in the jewels...haven't seen it but have heard of it happening. I have seen seen a dog eat a berry though.
After all said and done wbraun hits it on the head you try to walk away from the police bad things are going to happen to you. Are you walking away because you don't like the police or is it because you just buried the body?
Eric
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Elcap- if there is a case where a taser has been ruled as the cause of death please let me know. I am not calling you out I want to know of it so I have it in my knowledge base. I am not saying that a taser was never a factor in the death just that I am not aware of nor have I ever heard of any cases where the taser was ruled as the cause of death. I am a firm believer that guns do not kill people. I have never seen a gun that just went off. People kill people not the gun. Wether you point it at someone and intentionally pull the trigger or do something stupid and accidentally shoot someone there is always the human factor.
Eric
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