Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
|
Peter, as your upcoming surgery and rehab proceed I hope you write about it here. Perhaps you might start your own thread concerning your experience, progress, ascent. As always, you're very insightful, tfpu.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 12:37am PT
|
Peter provides some helpful insights, as always, including a personal angle. Thanks!
Rumour has it that things like swimming can be quite helpful in recovering. Another friend swears by his dog, which insisted on some good healthy exercise every day. That does seem the ticket - steady, moderate, varied exercise and a good diet go a long way. You don't have to be an extreme climber to be fit. And maybe that's part of the problem - standards, perhaps in part arising from popular and news media culture, that are unrealistic and unattainable.
|
|
BLR
Trad climber
Lower Eastside
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 01:09am PT
|
Why Even Resolute Dieters Often Fail
By JANE E. BRODY
Published: September 19, 2011
Excerpt:
Debunking a Long-Used Rule
//According to the researchers, it is easy to gain weight unwittingly from a very small imbalance in the number of calories consumed over calories used. Just 10 extra calories a day is all it takes to raise the body weight of the average person by 20 pounds in 30 years, the authors wrote.
Furthermore, the same increase in calories will result in more pounds gained by a heavier person than by a lean one — and a greater proportion of the weight gained by the heavier person will be body fat. This happens because lean tissue (muscles, bones and organs) uses more calories than the same weight of fat.
In an interview, Dr. Hall said the longstanding assumption that cutting 3,500 calories will produce a one-pound weight loss indefinitely is inaccurate and can produce discouraging results both for dieters and for policy changes like the proposed tax on sugar-sweetened beverages.//
Full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/health/20brody.html?pagewanted=all
Also - article about systems thinking and global obesity epidemic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/health/13brody.html?pagewanted=all
|
|
Papillon Rendre
Social climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 03:16am PT
|
What's eating Gilbert Grape?
The ending was very poignant.
This film gave me a glimpse of the suffering and shame the morbidly obese and their families experience.
I feel enormous empathy for all who suffer from weight related issues.
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 04:37am PT
|
Good posts.
It's not the calories in / calories out that's nasty it's the no sympathy part. Of course calories in / out is the determining factor for most people, but that is MUCH harder for some people than others.
I was at a gym with a pool recently and they were having a water exercise class. Probably everyone in it was obese and most were older. These people couldn't run, bike, etc. their bodies couldn't stand up to any impact, so they attend these water classes whenever they are scheduled. Now that it's getting cold I hope the pool is heated and they keep them going. These people have a long road ahead of them and they probably will never been at a "normal" BMI, but they were working at it. It was inspirational actually.
I can do a long approach and climb, go skiing, do some limited running, weight training, surfing, etc. and enjoy getting my exercise. I've had to work through some issues with physical therapy, and can't do what I used to, but I can still do a lot, now my right knee is starting to go and I'll have to see about physical therapy (hopefully) for that too. These people don't have that luxury. I can get good produce year round, some people can't, or they have never been educated about healthy diets.
Another easy way to see that it's different for different people is that for most of us we experience a change in metabolism as we get older. If I ate like I did in my 20s I'd be obese for sure. Pretty much every decade my body changes where I need to eat less and less to maintain the same weight (well a little bit heavier :-)
|
|
ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 05:39am PT
|
Actually, this is a misconception. Guinness Draught is one of the lightest beers out there by density and by calories; it's caloric content is equal to that of most light beers. Notice how it floats on top of an ale in a black & tan. If you're gonna drink beer, that's the way to go. Damn, I think I gotta go find one now!
(and it's about half the calories of most doughnuts)
Damn, this is what I get for trusting those who must drink for me. Thank you for the clarification. I was assured that a good pint of Guinness had the same caloric value as it's traditional partner, the Sunday Roast dinner. Thus, my friends would proudly declare they were efficiently consuming twice the calories at one meal. Based on your statement, they are wrong and it makes sense, though I've never seen a black & tan.
My donut is 250 calories. I still think 1 serving of beer (3 pints) has a bigger number than my one serving of donut (1 donut). Heh.
I always seem to believe that my mind will bend to the power of numbers and that by keeping so many numbers in my head, I will unlock the magic power of mind over body and be done with this whole pastry obsession.
I'm hoping it will work this next time around.
Then I'll have the whole shapechanging thing down right.
Best wishes to everyone and cheers
LS
|
|
Archie Richardson
Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 08:43am PT
|
When I was 20 I could eat pretty much what I wanted. If I needed to lose 5 lbs, I would exercise more and it would disappear in 2 wks. Now that I'm approaching 60, I find that diet is the most important part of the equation. I can't exercise enough to burn it off anymore. Low fat diets do not work well for me, and the food pyramid is disaster.
Lately Mark's Daily Apple has provided helpful guidance that seems to work. Mark advocates a high fat "Primal" diet emphasizing meat and veggies. Controversial, I know. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/17-reasons-youre-not-losing-weight/
Enjoy!
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 09:22am PT
|
Archie,
The person who wrote this book, is just rephrasing what Barry Sears wrote 15 years ago in his landmark book, :"Enter the Zone".
I'm a little disappointed that Sears has never really received the credit he deserves for bringing your "Paleolithic Diet" and other important nutritional guidelines to the mass populations. Unfortunately, Sears' book and others afterwards. which echo his revolutionary ideas, are not common knowledge, in the population.
It is amusing that Madonna (the singer), was the 1st celebrity following Sears' guidelines. Look at her body!
( I wouldn't call your recommendations controversial. When Sears first wrote his book, 15 years ago: it was controversial. These concepts are widely accepted now, unfortunately only a small bit of the population practices it.)
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 09:34am PT
|
Google "wheat belly"
|
|
MisterT
Trad climber
little gold truck
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 10:03am PT
|
In high school I dropped weight for wrestling. I was a middle sized guy with a huge appetite (well over 4,000 kcal a day at around 140). During the season I also grew a few inches. My metabolism really shut down and I was starving. My body craved calories and let me know. It was horrible and I was grouchy and mean all the time. After the season ended I gained about 25 lbs in 2 weeks. I was eating vast quantities of normal food for the most part. I could see my face getting fatter, but I was still ravenous. One day I wasn't hungry anymore and I dropped maybe 5 pounds and stabilized. It seems that the body has a set point that it wants to keep and below that you are ravenous and above that you just aren't hungry. It is pretty easy to stay at that set point. For some people it is higher than others. I suspect that many factors effect that point such as what and when you eat, exercise, genetics, and so on. Calories in vs. Calories out might be what it ultimately boils down to, but it is a very different willpower story when you are ravenous vs. when you aren't hungry.
Another time I tried to gain weight before a trip that I knew was going to be long and lean. I ate as much as I could - ice cream, brownies, etc. etc. I gained about 10 lbs fast, then I just wasn't hungry. I think I went up maybe 15 pounds total, then lost it all on the trip.
As I get older I can still pack away the food, but not the way I used to. Luckily for me my set point still seems to be at a reasonable level, because to always be in starvation food craving mode is a terrible thing that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
I know plenty of people a lot bigger than I am that eat far far less. When the famine comes I'm screwed, meanwhile, pass the ice cream.
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 10:10am PT
|
Mike,
That is great but what I find extremely frustrating is all the debatable ideas on nutrition. So a person wants to loose weight. Where do they turn?
Who to believe?
There are a ton of books out there on the subject.
Ya, I know that I'm pushing Sears' book, but that is because I am TOTALLY convinced he is spot on, and he backs up what he says by concrete results:
Olympic swim team etc.
Look into his credentials on Google. The American Diabetic Assoc. used to recommend Wheaties for breakfast! They finally have done an about face and totally endorse his program. I'm not a religious guy-in fact I'm an Agnostic, but I'm religious on Sears approach to nutrition.
|
|
monolith
climber
berzerkly
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 10:19am PT
|
Type 2 diabetes can be cured in weeks on some low fat diets, so I wouldn't go dumping on low fat plans. I know a couple of type 1 diabetics (this guy for one) that have greatly reduced their insulin requirements on a plan of nothing but raw fruit, veggies, and greens. It seems the plans that work are ones that drop junk, low nutrition, foods and that you are motivated enough to execute.
|
|
monolith
climber
berzerkly
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 11:39am PT
|
You're kidding right? Diabetes is one of the most preventable and treatable diseases. Many people have reversed their diabetes on the proper lifestyle choices, of which diet is a part of. It's all about education and motivation.
|
|
Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 11:42am PT
|
There is a marked difference between diet for weight loss and diet for athletic performance. An interesting thing is that virtually every diet works for weight loss, so there are disciples for every thing out there. The reason is that all the diets are reduced-calorie diets (south beach, zone, atkins, etc). All these diets are popularized by guys trying to make money selling books. The best research in dietetic needs really comes from the Harvard study, which basically advocates for a balanced diet with lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and a good source of protein.
Research shows that high carbs are probably not the best idea. But one-size doesn't fit all. For all activities a balance of carb/fat/protein is necessary. But for me I find that if I am skate-skiing a lot or focusing on aerobic activity I require a higher ratio of carbs. If I'm climbing a lot, which is more anaerobic, I tilt the ratio more towards more protein.
What's amazing to me is that we live in a society where we can access information almost anywhere on our phones but we don't know how to feed ourselves. Most people don't adjust their diets for their activities and can't read what their body needs or tells them at all.
|
|
discsinthesky
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 11:43am PT
|
Many of us eat when we’re not truly, physically hungry. We often munch because the sight and smell of food is too tempting to resist – and it just tastes good. Other times we eat because we’re bored, sad, lonely or stressed. And sometimes well-meaning family members and friends pressure us to eat.
+1. From a biological standpoint, we do not NEED to eat nearly as often as we do. It has only been very recently in evolutionary history that food has become so plentiful for people of the developed world, and clearly our bodies aren't equipped to handle it.
So what am I suggesting? I am not promoting self-imposed starvation (though I think what the average American would call starvation is anything but). However, I do think that we can be trained to be OK with eating less. The whole concept of eating until "full" has baffled me from a dietary standpoint. This was likely never an option for our ancestors, or even today for people in the poorest nations. I think our bodies are equipped to deal with irregular consumption of food and societies idea of 3 regular meals a day (or many smaller meals or whatever the hottest diet of the day dictates) is unnecessary.
|
|
monolith
climber
berzerkly
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 12:00pm PT
|
Hang in there Locker, things will work out if you just keep trying. There are many resources in Denver metro area. Go to health lectures, fairs, etc. Something you find will 'click' for you. I wouldn't rely completely on a dietician, most of which are not that good in my opinion.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
|
However, I do think that we can be trained to be OK with eating less. The whole concept of eating until "full" has baffled me from a dietary standpoint. This was likely never an option for our ancestors, or even today for people in the poorest nations. I think our bodies are equipped to deal with irregular consumption of food and societies idea of 3 regular meals a day (or many smaller meals or whatever the hottest diet of the day dictates) is unnecessary.
You can be ok from a standpoint that you don't collapse and die. That doesn't mean that they didn't have constant hunger pains.
For me, I can ignore the hunger pains. But as I've gotten older, I have found that if I don't keep my calories above a certain level, the number of headaches and migrains (yes, they are very different) I get skyrockets. And unfortunately that calorie level does not appear compatible with a lean, healthy lifestyle.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 12:13pm PT
|
As an adult, I really don't feel sympathy for myself if I gain a little, I do know it's my own fault. But there is a lot for people to overcome by what they are surrounded by and I mostly feel for the youngsters, how can they have a chance with the brainwashing marketing they are subjected to? These companies spend huge amounts of money targeting kids/teens because it WORKS. It has far reaching effects that follow someone through the rest of their life. It's unethical, IMO, to market to young with unhealthy food.
Ethics and Advertising cannot appear in the same space time continuum....and vice versa
|
|
discsinthesky
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
|
You can be ok from a standpoint that you don't collapse and die. That doesn't mean that they didn't have constant hunger pains.
For me, I can ignore the hunger pains. But as I've gotten older, I have found that if I don't keep my calories above a certain level, the number of headaches and migrains (yes, they are very different) I get skyrockets. And unfortunately that calorie level does not appear compatible with a lean, healthy lifestyle.
In that same time frame I think people's tolerance of pain/discomfort has gone way down too....
EDIT:
I don't mean to come off as somehow being above all this, I certainly am not. Just some things I have pondered.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!