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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Oct 24, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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More ASCA retrobolts?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Oct 24, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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Johnkelley-
This is california, tons of hot girls, great weather, and the basic human right to clip into bolts at every belay.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 24, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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More ASCA retrobolts?
Not after Roger corrects them.
It should be fairly clear from the discussion above that we ASCA folks know the West Face is a sensitive area and we don't want to create controversy / negative reactions.
Plenty of original bolts to fix on other climbs with ASCA hangers.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Just wanted to post an update for all those getting on the route. We just climbed the first 7 or 8 (depending on how you count) and rapped off.
Clint's topo (see next post) shows a very accurate representation of the route. I'll give a pitch by pitch description of the route as of 9/2013.
All belays up to the big ledge after the 11c steep finger crack (P8 in clint's topo) are setup for rappeling and have new 3/8" bolts.
P1. 3 lead bolts and a handful of pitons to a two bolt belay. The first bolt is a 1/4"er but you quickly clip a solid 3/8" bolt. This section is 5.11 and doesn't offer any other type of protection. There is an enhanced hook placement in the vicinity of the two bolts which might be how it was aid climbed previously. The 3rd bolt is new and the anchor is two bolts set up for rappel.
P2. 3 lead bolts and a bunch more pitons. The first bolt helps protect the belay and while pitons could be used here, the bolt is in a good place and bomber. You can get some gear in the rising traverse but the pitons still provide crucial pro. If they were to pull-out in a fall, the result would not be catastrophic. Two bolts protect the final face climbing section. The supertopo marks this 11c, but it is much easier. Clint's topo says 10b. I say split the difference. The first bolt is bomber and the second bolt is a euro style pin bolt (see photo below). I didn't know how to pull out the pin bolt, so someone more skilled will have to replace it. Since the bottom bolt is good, the crappy pin bolt is not super dangerous. You are very soon at the P2 anchor, which has three solid bolts.
P3. No lead bolts. This pitch ends at a slung block with a new bolt that has a chain on it. The slings on the block are a newish and connected to the bolt and chain with a big quicklink. You can easily throw in a #1 camalot to belay.
P4 This short pitch can be linked with the next one. There are two new bolts at the "optional belay" shown on the supertopo. These currently have piece of cord and a few biners for rappel. You don't even need to use these bolts since you can link P4+P5 on the way up. Perhaps these are here for the aid route that goes up the big arch?
P5. Another bolt free pitch with amazing face climbing. End at a large sloping ledge with two shiny bolts. There are not really any good places for gear here. The bolts seem pretty logical.
P6. I'm not really sure where P6 is as marked on Clint's topo. There is a pin on this pitch, but it does not seem like a logical place to belay. We did the mega pitch ,70m rope required, from the P5 ledge to the P7 anchor (another big ledge). There is currently a fixed head protecting the 11c crux on this pitch. You can place gear below the fixed head and the fall here is clean.
Above the fixed head is a single newish 1/4" bolt with a long sling on it. Between the head and the bolt you may be able to get a small nut in the corner. We cleaned out 3 fixed nuts, two of which had blown rusted cables. I say the 1/4 incher should stay or be upgraded. It has a nice SMC hanger and the long piece of cord allows you to clip it to backup the fixed head. A piton perhaps could go in somewhere but would take away a handhold (which are in serious shortage at this point). The bolt is currently in a weird place, thus the long piece of cord. If it were replaced I would put it lower so you can clip it from the good stance right above the fixed head.
P7 As mentioned above this is best linked with P6 if you have a 70m rope. End on a good ledge with two bolts with chains.
P8. There are a bunch of fixed pins on this pitch (the steep 11c fingers) as well as a fixed head protecting some face climbing above the crux. The fixed head is backed up easily with a cam a few feet below. This pitch ends at a big ledge which currently has two 3/8" bolts on the right side. A few feet above these bolts is a random hangerless 3/8" bolt, that perhaps could be used if you had a rivet hanger.
We pulled out the extraneous 1/4" bolts on the P8 ledge and patched up a bunch of other holes on the route from previous re-bolting efforts. We only climbed up to P8. So you will have to depend on other reports for the conditions of bolts above P8. Anchors are all solid and the current 1/4" lead bolts are all in places where there is other bomber protection either soon after or right before. I take personal responsibility for removing extra bolts and patching holes. These actions were not sponsored by or associated with the ASCA. I wanted to have a look at this route and am now happy to have removed a bunch of junk from the route so that it is cleaner and better equipped for the next party.
I can understand how this route used to have many less bolts, but that would require a leader to bring a hammer and place pitons along the way. This is no longer a reasonable expectation. This route should be climbed more often and removing anchor bolts, where there are no other protection options, seems unreasonable. Sure you could build gear anchors mid pitch, but it much more logical to belay on natural ledges.
Currently there are 22 bolts in the first 8 pitches 15 are at anchor stations with 7 used for protection. There are at least 20+ pitons on these pitches.
As it stands in the case of a storm you can rappel the route from P8. Be aware that you can easily get your rope stuck on face holds along the way. Don't plan on just going up to do the first 8. The approach and rappeling took us more time than climbing the first 8 pitches.
You need two 60m ropes to bail from P8. with an 80m rope you can bail from P3. With a 70m rope you can bail from P2. In both cases you have to swing accross from the P2 to P1 anchor.
Rap Lengths:
P8->P7 35 m
P7->P5 60 m
P5->P4 30-35 m
P5->P3 55 m
P3->P2 40m
P2->P1 30-35 m
P2-> Ground 60 m
P1-> Ground 35 m
Have fun!
 Luke
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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All pitch numbers referenced in the post above refer to this topo:
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Just climbed this route yesterday. A few thoughts re: this statement:
"As this is the accessible free route up El Cap, proper respect and consideration really need to go into it's maintenance.
A boltless Grade VI is a rare and wonderful thing. Royal and TM did their best on the FA and almost pulled it off. We owe them our best effort as a community to maintain that high standard moving forward. Convenience bolts really have no place on this proud climb."
I would add pitons and heads (as would be required to belay on several ledges) to the list of items that no longer have a place on this proud rock climb. As such, the bolted anchors at obvious ledges are appropriate. Calling them 'convenience anchors' is to uphold a ridiculous standard: are the proud standard-bearing free climbers of today really meant to build hanging anchors in the middle of many pitches, thereby effectively returning aid climbing (i.e.hanging belays) to the route, simply in order to avoid belaying on natural ledges in the manner of the first party? What do we really owe those guys?
In 1967, the tools of the trade were rather limited,as was the first ascentionists' desire to spend many rainy days on the route equipping it for a difficult-to-imagine future of hammerless climbers pushing the route free in a day. Nevertheless, this is the day in which we now live. Honoring the vision of those guys (who are still around) is a nice idea. However, as Roger B. says, whatever the charms of the route BITD, it is now a free route, and hanging belays in corners below big ledges that happen to be crackless would lend little charm to the route.
Clipping into bolted belays in no way diminished my appreciation for the efforts of the FA party. Advocating for the removal of these anchors is to ignore the nature of the route in favor of slavish devotion to an idea that exists in a theoretical vacuum.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Sonora
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^^^^
I could not agree more! I hope you had fun, Rob
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Lots of fun, both types. Apparently I haven't climbed anything longer than about half a rope since last fall.
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