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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
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Supertopo is a shark feeding sushi fest.
Darwin would have posted here.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:24pm PT
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Anyone besides me think the big winner in this mess might be Hillary Clinton?
I think she's been acting to position herself to look good with every controversy, including this one, Kris. Time will tell whether this makes her a big winner.
I'm also curious, DMT, in what way you can present Afghanistan as a neocon adventure. At the time, virtually the entire political establishment, as well as most of NATO, supported the overthrow of the Taliban government because of its overt and unrepentant provision of aid, comfort and sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden and his cronies.
John
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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I'm also curious, DMT, in what way you can present Afghanistan as a neocon adventure.
John, that's just more of the same lame and sad pap that got us into the wars Obama inherited.
The Project for the New American Century
Wouldn't matter who was president now, they'd have been just as f*#ked as Obama.
In general, I would have thought such tripe beneath you.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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Prove it.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
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John, that's just more of the same lame and sad pap that got us into the wars Obama inherited.
I'm not sure how your post, Joe, disproves that the impetus for Afghanistan came from the neocons. While it's certainly consistent with neocon positions, in 2001 it was hardly exclusively so. I doubt that my memory has faded that badly in nine years since 2001. The support for the Afghanistan invasion was strong, bipartisan, and broad then. Prove me wrong, Norton.
Edit:
It looks like you were writing your reply, DMT, while I was writing mine. If what you're saying is that neocons still support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while many of the initial supporters no longer do, then I agree. My beef is with revisionists who supported the effort initially trying to jump off the ship because they think it's sinking now.
John
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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Actually Ron, Obama has spent less on , what you call parties, than any presidents other than Clinton and Carter.
So quit puking your pejorative propaganda. Ya tool!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
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Who'd have thought that the throngs of Republican masses would choose to see this as a BAD THING. Gee...I wonder if he HADN'T fired him they'd see it as a bad thing?
I'll bet it's 50/50 that BHO refuses to accept the resignation, to look magnanimous and to have someone to pin the blame on later when his June 2011 deadline comes and goes.
Oh right...
It's like a whole generation of adults are redefining themselves based on whether or not they can disparage Obama.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
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Hey Ksolem, this line out of your link made me thing of a few STopians.
A statement from the Anti-Defamation League characterizes the claim as an "offensive caricature of Muslim beliefs."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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John, they got the votes after a long campaign of disinformation, manufactuactured intelligence, and patriotic arm twisting few politicians could withstand.
By and large I consider taking the nation to war for a political agenda a treasonable act.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:02pm PT
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Fatty said I was always ahead of the curve, I wanted war with Afghn after they blew up the Buddha's in 2000. What an insult to nature, Werner, Karl and others.
Let's honor Buddhists by killing those that disrespect them!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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Particularly the way the Bush thugs treated real American heros like Max McClellan.
If they could get away with that what politician stood a chance against the flag waving frothers?
To now try and distant Neo-Con cronies from quilt and culpability because, hey,back then they all did it, is a sizable pile of steamin' poo stew.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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NeoCon adventure?
How come Obama called it "the right war" ?
Obama is a NeoCon?
If it really is "the right war", like Obama says, are you sure you want to give the NeoCons credit for it?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:07pm PT
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No Fatty, you are very arrogant, frequently wrong, and constantly bragging about yourself in a very transparent and childish manner.
Adults don't act like that.
You need to be bitch slapped up and down the street and told to grow up.
Now, get with the program and put away your toys.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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Who'd have thought that the throngs of Republican masses would choose to see this as a BAD THING. Gee...I wonder if he HADN'T fired him they'd see it as a bad thing?
Um, I guess fattrad and I are no longer Republicans? Please see our earlier posts when the topic was still Obama v. McChrystal.
John
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:11pm PT
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It was the only war remotely connected to the widely accused perpetrators of 911.
Bush used it as a pre-text to invade Iraq which was the real agenda all along.
Of the two theaters of Operation Iraq had nothing to do with the 911 response. Shrub and Dick left Afghanistan unfinished to go play Imperialists in Iraq.
WMDs = weapons of mental distractions = weak minded droids
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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we instead destabilized our ally on the other border, Pakistan, lost our host influence there and made everything in the region much worse - Iran is stronger than ever, Pakistan is on the verge of a fundamentalist civil war, Afghanistan is no closer to Fully Operational Client State than it ever was.
Uh, that is false
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
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Obama was and is right about Afghanistan. Look at Iraq right now. I chatted with a soldier based in Northern Iraq a couple nights ago. The place is pretty damn quiet for US troops right now. According to him all they do is intelligence gathering. Patreus turned the place around and we're in for a long phase where Iraq figures out how to start doing things itself (which is going to take a while have no doubt). Afghanistan and Pakistan is where the bad guys are (and always were).
The "blame" that Neocons deserve for Afghanistan is that they steered our attention away to Iraq to begin the Great ME Invasion and allowed the opportunity we had in Afghanistan to turn to utter sh#t.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
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Uh, why?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:50pm PT
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It's suprising to me that so many people don't understand or care about the concepts of honor and first blood.
Al Queda attacked us. That gave us the right to destroy them. The Taliban harbored them but was it smart to try to out them and establish a fair governemnt in a part of the world that is so corrupt and f*#ked up?The last elections were bogus. As we just turned a blind eye. We can't fix their country and it's not our responsibilty to.
We were right to go into Afghanistan and route Al Queda. Then we should have got the hell out and said if we will continue to attack Al Queda at will anywhere in Afghanistan with any means we want. Done and done.
Jon Voight, what a joke! The guy doesn't even speak to his daughter, must be a great person.
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