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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
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It was the imports that "f*#ked it up" DA
The generation that came here in the late 1800's and 19teens were farmers and ranchers just like those previous with a real connection to the land.
Their kids grew up with the same connection.
The real downfall of Southern California was the aftermath of WWII. Between the explosive growth of the aerospace industry and returning vets that transited thru here and then returned with a family the population explosion and subsequent destruction was a fate sealed.
The California of my childhood disappeared as I watched.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
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TGT wrote: The generation that came here in the late 1800's and 19teens were farmers and ranchers just like those previous with a real connection to the land.
How old are you???
Get off your fecking high horse...most of the white settlers stole the land from the indigenous population in the 1800's during the gold rush.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
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I just got back from fishing the Owens River Gorge. They're headed for the grill next.mmmmm big healthy browns too.
Where I went, ain't no one ever going to bolt. There was stuff there though. If we were closer to a city, this stuff would already be done.
Trying to get back to Donnini's point.
What's the use.
Idaho sucks, Cali rocks brah! In your face.
Edit- don't take me seriously rox- idaho is pretty cool too.
Reno isn't bad if know where to go. Right among the Casinos is a rippin' vietnamese place. There's a good basque bar down there as well. Other wise- why go to the strip?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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Dingus wrote: So what IS the sad truth about California climbing anyway? Maybe someone could like, enlighten me... how bad do I have it, again?
Is that it has the best and most diverse climbing in the US...truth hurts.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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Kevin and Mister E...don't be posting links to facts...it will hot-wire TGT...he is a teabaggers and republican. His world view comes from the likes GWB, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
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Learn some history DA.
there was an anglo presence and intermarriage in So Cal from way back.
The Californios defeated (or at least got a draw) at the battle of Cahuenga pass with the donation of a retired anglo ship captians cannon, ammo and expertise. He wasn't that expert. The only casualty from the battle was a Mexican army mule. The battle did result in the Mexican governor being replaced with one that was acceptable to the Californios.
The Workman and Rowland families just for one example, were intermarried with the Picos and other prominent Hispanic families. They were given the land. they didn't take it. LA was a very cosmopolitan / multicultural place from the beginning. If one were to speculate about an alternative history with no Fremont it's likely that California would have followed a path like much like Texas as a short lived true independent state. (not the sham one that did shortly exist)
So assuage your liberal guilt with myths of epic land thefts if you wish, but at least properly attribute them to the Spanish and later easterners that were equal opportunity thieves.
my immediate forbearers came here at (on one side) or immediately before or shortly after (the other side) the turn of the last century to farm not plunder. I grew up in a house that my dad built with nothing but miles of orange groves around when I was small and nothing but suburbs by the time I was out of elementary school. Saw my grandad's place go from oranges to apartments to slums in less than a five year period after he died and grandma sold.
The thing that's most amazing about the transformation/destruction of California is how fast it happened.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
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TGT wrote: So assuage your liberal guilt with myths of epic land thefts if you wish, but at least properly attribute them to the Spanish and later easterners that were equal opportunity thieves.
Idiot...I was referring to your statement about being second generation when I included Hispanics as a time frame.
You can justified any thing you want in that mind of your...the truth won't change.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 31, 2010 - 09:34pm PT
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TGT~
happened?
happening.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 31, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
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Did any of you climb this weekend?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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happened?
happening.
As soon as the paleo-indians got here they started transforming the landscape with fire.
The Ranchero's elevated that in spades and turned millions of acres of oak woodlands into grasslands that eventually turned to chaparral without the regular maintenance by fire and grazing.
There wasn't any "natural" Southern California landscape even during the mission period.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
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TGT wrote...There wasn't any "natural" Southern California landscape even during the mission period.
Excluding of course your family and their orange groves.
This gets funnier each time you post.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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Donini is right on in his opening statement.....because of the large populations of San Diego, LA, and SF....any rock near these places , reguardless of quality, is being cleaned , scraped, bolted, and climbed....just like what has happened in most of the UK......it's not a bad thing, really;...and he's not saying the climbing blows in California;...because it don't.....but because we have great weather, lots of climbers, and lots of rock....alot of the rock is being climbed....reguardless of quality.....I'm guilty of this too;...I climb anything...as long as it's rock climbing;...I'm game. There is still lots of unclimbed rock, lots of secret places, and lots of * climbs to be "unearthed" in California......but look at places like New Jack, The Quarry, and any stone within 1/2 hour of LA, San Fran, ....now San Diego;...well;.....that may be a different story........don't pick on Donini to hard;...he's mostly correct about his original statement......We climb anything here in California;...and why not?...If the Brits do it...so can we...dammit......never really interested in arguing with anyone who says the climbing in Calif. bites....because that person is a madman;...and why discuss anything with a lunatic?...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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The point D' is obvious.
Humans have been impacting this landscape for better than 10,000 years. Usually not for the better,
however I'll take an orange grove or a grassland with a few cattle (that were raised only for their hides, kinda like domestic buffalo) over a concrete wasteland any day.
.
Is that an obvious enough statement for you?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
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TGT is one guilty SOB when it comes to gobbling up climbs;..he's like a greedy goat out to pasture who is eating up alot of grass.....he is one of those fools who climbs anything and everything....he may be a Brit , for all I know.....AND he likes his beer too......he cannot be trusted....
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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TGT...my point is even more obvious than your.
Second generation or the one hundred...big difference.
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kbstuffnpuff
Sport climber
State of Confusion
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May 31, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
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I love California.
I just got completely stoned on crushingly kind herb I bought at the store. Legally.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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And Todd, I'm old enough to have got do lots of them before the masses, "cleaned them" wore them out and greased them up.
At any rate that's a good enough excuse to use when one of them shuts me down now.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
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THE family? Donnini is hooked up with the Mansons?
Helter Skelter!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
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I was born and raised in Idaho, 19+ years. Couldn't wait to leave. Had to drive hours to get to any decent rock. Food's crappy. No culture. No altitude points. That was in North Idaho, where it's nice.
Now I am a Californian Loving California. I live in LA. I've seen more wildlife in my own backyard, yes, my lot, in the city limits of LA, than I ever saw in 20 years in Idaho. I've got deer, bobcat, coyote, skunk, raccoon, fox, all kinds of hawks, geese, ducks, coots, egrets & heron. I've got a 3 peaks over 10,000 about an hour away and choice climbing on wide range of granite, sandstone and volcanics. Occasionally some ice and decent backcountry skiing. WAY more fishing in the Pacific. Uh... you can keep Idaho.
And Rokjox -- YOU are a Californian which means YOU are Californicating Idaho! AND I know, because I'm one of them, Idahoan's HATE Californians.
:-D
Colorado: Nice rocks, nice mountains, nice girls, NO BEACH!
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