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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 25, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
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Yeah, I've seen it, TT...it ain't pretty.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 25, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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I would be ok with it if the fight was fair but its rigged. the guys on horses with spears soften the bull up for the dude with the sword. That just ain't right. One on one, if the bull wins he goes out to pasture and gets to be a stud.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 26, 2010 - 09:33am PT
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well put, brother paul.
the maya knew this. the tearing out of the heart was the sacred moment at which the god descended. usually you sacrificed your enemy. sometimes the winner of their ball game was selected for the honor of being sacrificed.
the rituals of dim pagans? christians have jesus christ being sacrificed for them. neat.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2010 - 11:24pm PT
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as far as common religious imagery goes, the crucifix has to be one of the most shocking and brutal, especially to a child. crucifixes are common on summits in Europe, especially Germany, Austria and Northern Italy. When my son Sascha was ~10 we had hiked to the top of a peak in Bavaria where there was a crucifix. He stared at it for awhile and then asked "What did that guy do?"
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 12:02am PT
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I assure you Skipt, his question was spontaneous. My wife & I are agnostics and secular humanists. He was raised here in the states and was visiting his aunt in Bavaria during the summer. This was probably the 1st time he had ever looked closely at a crucifix and he was understandably shocked by what he saw...a man nailed to a cross with a crown of thorns on his head.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 27, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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I've always wondered if Christ had been gassed or electrocuted would his followers wear little electric chairs or gas chambers round their necks or nooses or...?
Saw photos of a real cucifixion in a photo show at the Santa Barbara Museum of Art... not sure where they were from, but they looked quite old and they were absolutely horrific!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 27, 2010 - 09:39am PT
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Tolume. You could have told him that the man nailed to the cross was nice to everyone, he helped everyone, he encouraged his fellow humans to be nice to each other and to help each other and he was a healer. The goverment was afraid of him so they tourtured and killed him.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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May 27, 2010 - 09:46am PT
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driving down the oregon coast,
i stop at some botanical gardens
and wander the raised walk, gawking
at the giggles of nature.
a space bag of wine and some spearimental mushrooms:
..so so day at the office.
horrific imagery.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 10:27am PT
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tradmanclimbs - I did tell him something about the historical jesus...I think I said that the man was a zealot, he preached "love thy neighbor" and told people that if they followed him they could achieve happiness in an afterlife. this was too radical and threatening to the religious and political establishment of the time, so they tortured and killed him.
I think it was Nietzsche that said: "There has only been one true christian, and they nailed him to a cross"
I interpret jesus as a historical figure, a sort of charismatic philosopher. All that business about being the son of god or that he performed miracles is fantasy. The religion that was created in his name, the catholic church, ranks among the most evil institutions man has ever known.
Norwegian: nice self portrait.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 27, 2010 - 10:47am PT
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It is important to not confuse Jesus with the bible and with all the oganized religious crap that followed.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 27, 2010 - 10:52am PT
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I would not be so certain that he was not a healer. just because YOUR scientific modern brain can't handel it does not mean that healers did not exist in a time when people were open minded to that sort of thing. It is also important to remember that storys grow in the telling and that the catholic church has also manipulated the storys over the centurys to suit their political needs..
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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You're right...my mind can't handle healers with supernatural powers but the mind can be trained to control the body
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 27, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
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Maybe those powers as you call them were natural and not supernatural. We have forgotten a lot of what was natural to us when we lived closer to the land. The more comfort we enjoy the more scientific we get the more we forget the things we needed to know in order to survive and thrive in a more natural enviornment.
This whole computer thing is pretty darn supernatural if you ask me. laying hands on a cancer patient and performing rekki is way more natural than blogging on the internet.
Keeping in mind how stories grow arround the campfire it is completly believeable that Christ was a super carismatic person that people gravitated to, no problem believeing that he was able to help people and heal people.. Most of the other crap was layed on him after he was long gone.. Definatly some political spin from many angles that have shaped the stories since then.
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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May 28, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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wow ghost, pretty weak.
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