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Russ Walling
Social climber
NOT FOR LOAN™ CC3
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Hey MtYoung:
Maybe you missed this part from my post above:
"What I think don't mean sh#t."
I have never heard anything so elitist in my life! C'mon....
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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"I think mainly they just want to clear up the mistruths (rivet ladder, streaks of feces, etc.)"
did the huge feces streak ever actually get denied?
i think they just claimed to have tossed their poops as per the style of the era, and then to have cleaned up after themselves (at the base) when they were done.
that said, a month of tossing poops over slabs adds up to what, if not a big long streak of poop?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
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"The bigger question, at least for me, is: How can anyone time their BM to coincide with a nighttime raid?
Uhh, maybe the Evildoers™ did the evil deed while on an alpine start to somewhere else?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Russ, I didn't miss that part, but the remaining parts of the messages (and Duece's more than yours, its true) weren't consistent with the disclaimer. And your opinion does matter. It matters as much as that of any other interested party, not more and not less. As far as "elitist," you lost me there. did you mean I'm elitist, or you are or they are? If you meant me, I'm amused. I guarantee I'm not in the elite in any catagory (except maybe as a husband and father, but that's not this).
And Gunkie, I gotta admire your sense of humor. I don't often laugh out loud, but I did. I'm glad you're bored at work.
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darod
Trad climber
New York
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"Gunkie, I gotta admire your sense of humor. I don't often laugh out loud, but I did. I'm glad you're bored at work."
Same here.... lol
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MSmith
Mountain climber
Portland, Oregon
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Although it may not seem like it, we have not intended to go on a belly-aching rant or diatribe against our detractors. I think that mtnyoung and others make some insightful observations about the backdrop which no doubt has influenced what Richard and I think and write. The cutting down of our ropes in '82 was just the start of years of stuff, most of which hasn't come up on this thread, nor does it need to. The bad-blood with several of the major players on this thread comes from more than just the summer of '82. So my apologies if quality of the thread has deteriorated because I've become angry from recent posts. There are several statements out there that beg a response, but maybe it's time to let them go. Best wishes and good climbing.
--MS
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Russ Walling
Social climber
NOT FOR LOAN™ CC3
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MtYoung writes: As far as "elitist," you lost me there. did you mean I'm elitist, or you are or they are?
Great question. I was not refering to you, though it seemed you were refering to me, but I was thinking it was them, even though it sounded like me. Hope that clears it up.
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aldude
climber
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When the pendulum swings - and it will - This slab wil be the host of the world's first 5.16 and Yosemite will again be the center of the universe! SLABS RULE.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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MSmith - Would still love to know what Warren thought of the whole affair, surely you guys discussed it with him at least once didn't you? Also give me a shout if you want to go out to Beacon if we ever get a break in the weather...
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MSmith
Mountain climber
Portland, Oregon
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I've met Warren (perhaps no surprise) and talked with him extensively on one occasion. Honestly, I don't recall discussing Wings Of Steel in any depth. Looking back, I guess that's kind of strange.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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I had a whole 5 gallon bucket of piss/shit we filled up in the barn/garage we used to party in. I was going to dump it in the sunroof of a guy's car who got caught stealing from me. But even I was not that immature (about age 17) and ended up deciding that since the guy didn't get away with it I wouldn't do it. Later I finished off a wall and left the bucket boarded in under the eaves where it sits to this day, decades later. I hate to think of the person that opens that time capsule some day.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 07:36pm PT
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darod ( you asked :-) )
Well I just came back from climbing an excellent route but the route next to it looks like a definite piece of sh-it. Now I’ve never climbed that piece of sh-it darod that I called a piece of sh-it but that’s how it looked with all the choss all over it.
Seriously now darod, we’ll go to the used car lot and I’ll pick out a piece of sh-it car for you to buy. You’ll defiantly take one look at this rust bucket that I picked out for you to buy for yourself and say what a piece of sh-it even before driving it.
Some people here will say oh my god darod, terrible terrible that you have these bad thoughts about something you haven’t even driven yet. Meanwhile you definitely know you don’t want it. Still dudes are coming around trying to drag your ass over there verbally to that rust bucket to get in it against your will. This hot rod is just not you baby and you know it.
Well some clever folks will say how do you know you don’t want it if you haven’t even driven it yet? Finally you say after all this verbal bull sh-it now fu-ck off people I don’t want this piece of sh-it, but the one over there across the street in the other lot that you’ve been eyeballing all along.
So you troop over there and buy the car you like. Mean while the guy selling the cars in the lot you went to originally and me now thinks we are a piece of sh-it because you said his cars are on his lot suck. Ha ha ha ha
Do we see how this bullshit’ is playing out and how it goes on and on …..stupid!
Now those two knuckleheads that somehow took it upon themselves to be rock cops back when Richard and Mark where trying to do their thing on El Cap, their actions which no one condoned whatsoever except for the perpetrators themselves who chopped and defecated Mark and Richards equipment was high treason and crimes against their fellow man.
I believe if those perpetrators had not done this foolish nonsense that most of what we are witnessing here now in these threads would not be occurring.
So sorry for my bad English composition, as I’m a piece of sh-it writer.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Some final, short comments to tie up a few loose ends.
There was no streak of feces on the slab. Even from the top of the slab it was easy to throw the bags out far enough to make the base. The base was a mess until we cleaned it up, but the slab was always clean. Don't know why that matters to anybody, but, anyway, that's the fact of the matter.
When Warren wrote the forward for my book, we talked quite a bit about how things had turned into a fiasco. I actually have a taped interview with him, which has never seen the light of day. His summation of the valley boys' attitudes and the escalation of hostilities was, and this is a quote, "It's like dogs pissing on trees.... Things never change."
Anyone who has gotten a book published will know how little control you end up having over a host of editorial decisions, and, if you don't want to just pull the plug, you make compromises that you are very unhappy with. For the record, I thought the title was over the top, but my protests were ignored, since the bean counters decided how to market the product, and naming is part of marketing. In various exchanges with the editorial committee, the book became MUCH more religious and MUCH less a climbing story than I originally wrote, but it WAS a religious publisher. I sent the manuscript to many publishers, and I have many rejection letters. Not a single rejection critiques the writing or the story; the problem was always that the whole thing was too controversial. I named names, etc., and publishers were afraid of defamation suits. The usual suspects for outdoor publishers ALL rejected the book on the basis of things like the editor being friends with some valley boy who dissed the route, leading the publisher to think that our side of the story was nothing but frothy hype. So, there are many things I wish were different about the book, but it was our one avenue for getting any PART of our side of the story out there.
Now, I'm with Mark on the exit strategy, so to the relief of some, this will be my final post. The thread has really had its highs and its lows, so I guess it's fitting to end my involvement while it is currently neither.
I've been pissed here near the end, but even that has passed now. Overall, I think there has been a refreshing level of charity on the part of most contributors, and for that I thank you. I leave feeling better than when I came, which I did not expect, so, again, thank you. Good climbing to you all.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Another "valley boy" conspiracy in the end....again.
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Ahwahnee Bartender
Big Wall climber
Fog Town
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I just bought the book (Amazon - used *cheap). Will report in with my review for those who care.
Theo
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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I think the first thread was better than the sequel.
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James
Social climber
My Subconcious
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John,
I concur. The dialogue was better, the characters were flushed out well, and there was a greater sense of setting.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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I just bought the book (Amazon - used *cheap). Will report in with my review for those who care.
Ditto.
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Huge Balls
Big Wall climber
Darkside of the Moon
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Hey Madbolter1. Can I get a topo and a list of people who bailed off the route. Also interested in your other topos for my own historical references. I keep a huge file of bigwall topos from all over and would be very greatful for them. Thank you very much for the info on the route.
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