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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2005 - 06:53pm PT
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Koran 58:5, 17:16-17, 2:8-10, 8:37, and many others
Uh... quote please? I seem to have misplaced my "great religious texts of the world" set...
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 19, 2005 - 08:44pm PT
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Forest, just Google "Koran 17:16", etc.
It's just a bunch of typical Old Testament stuff. You know, putting to death people who eat cheeseburgers, etc.
fattrad chooses to interpret it one way, others won't find it so sinister.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:22pm PT
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Most of the above have a bullet with your name on it.
That's right, your name, too. And what does W. do? He lets OBL off the hook, and turns Iraq over to those mullahs on my dime and other Americans' blood. Meanwhile he plays kissy face with the Saudis who financed and flew the 9/11 planes. And you wonder why I want W. out of there PDQ?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 19, 2005 - 10:17pm PT
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"The Spinmaster is right about reading multiple sources of information prior to reaching a conclusion, the problem is Spinny, Gary, dirtbag, et al do not read or listen to any of the more pragmatic sources. I read the SF Chron, NY Times and the Wall St. Journal everyday to get a balance of opinions. They have bought into the Corporations/Bush = Evil/ Bad mentality of Michael Moore/John Kerry, they never mention the thousands of employees who work for Chevron, Haliburton, Boeing or that the root of the problem is Islamic clerics that want to kill or enslave them regardless of our activities in the middle east. It is plainly written in the Koran. "
Fatty, you jerk, you don't have a clue what I read or who I believe in. Michael Moore doesn't cite enough sources and is squeamishly partisan. Kerry was my last choice of any of the Democratic candidates. I'm not clear on what the employees of Chevron have to do with that sentence and I read the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal on occaision, the Arizona Republic, the Washington Post and a myriad of monthly and weekly periodicals, not to mention all the internet info I can get my hands on. I listen to NPR and purposefully tune in to conservative talk radio shows and religious radio shows. I read books by Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh and have posted quotes from those books on this very forum. Don't tell me I don't do enough research, especially when I'm constantly posting links backing up my posts.
I'm bought into the Bush is a jerk mentality because he has proved over and over and over again that he is a jerk! I mean loyalty oathes to climb the ladder in the NPS or to even get into a campaign rally? What kind of republic are we running here?
Had he just said after the Iraq invasion "ok there weren't WMD's and we went with some intelligence that was less than perfect. We did what we thought was right for this country and we owe it to the people of Iraq to make this turn out well. I need your help to get this working right. I messed up and I'm sorry." MAN that would have gone a long way with me. Instead its "what problem? I don't know what you are talking about. We SAID this was going to take a long time. Not enough troops? No idea what you mean."
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Oct 19, 2005 - 10:32pm PT
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As Dylan stated: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 20, 2005 - 03:44pm PT
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Even thought this interventionism has failed time after time? What's that quote about insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 20, 2005 - 05:00pm PT
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Spinmaster K-Rove, good points to Lois, forums like this just want me to learn more about issues, though as a journalist for over 30 years working in five countries, I try to seek out information on a number of issues, but still these forums are very useful.
Fattrad, I think it is good that you read publications that don't jive with your views. But do you read them with an open mind or a closed one? Do you already have your mind made up before reading a 'liberal' article? do you read them so you can criticise them or a certain point of view?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 20, 2005 - 07:49pm PT
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Lois-
Since Dirtbag didn't respond on his own let me interject that many of us, particularly those on this forum, often take quite a bit of pride in our dirtbagedness. It's like being called a 'liar' at a Republican convention or a 'wuss' at a Democratic one.
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426
Sport climber
Nada (yeah. it is), KY
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Oct 22, 2005 - 11:20pm PT
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While we're playing D&D, Koran style....
My level 13 Cleric™ (next turn) casts out...using his Bible of End Times™ (NIV version for the nitpickers)
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
ah and my favorite:
Christians cannot be held responsible....Romans 8:33, because, ultimately, God™ is responsible....
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Oct 22, 2005 - 11:30pm PT
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It's interesting to glance through this entire thread. But it's not so easy to get a grasp on exactly what world is desired by those who so ardently support Bush. Everyone has a vision of an ideal world--Bush supporters, what is yours?
JL
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Trav
climber
LA
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Oct 23, 2005 - 01:32am PT
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 23, 2005 - 02:04pm PT
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426...D&D...I love it! And thanks for finally busting out with some Bible quotes.
Fatty, for someone who believes in 'understanding all sides' you are a pretty selective person. The Koran states that somewhere that all infidels must be killed while the Bible has countless entries for the enslavement, torture and murder of people for all kinds of reasons, INCLDUING believing in other religions. Seems like those level 13 Clerics in Iran have an equal justification for killing us.
And your pretzel-logic for ignoring N. Korea is totally insane. If I tell you that I have 10 children locked in my basement you have a responsibility to investigate, but when you accuse me of having children in my basement and I deny it you haved the burden of proof. Not only has N. Korea claimed possession of nukes, but all of our intelligence points to that possibility. Equating that situation and the whimsical fancy that you had in 2002 that Saddam was on his way towards nuclear capibility is absurd and is even more proof positive that you are a 'goal oriented' decision maker. You decide the ends and then look for means to justify it, which seems to be a highly popular neocon trait.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 23, 2005 - 06:07pm PT
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Fatty are you serious? Mark another notch for your selective hearing I guess. Haven't you said on virtually every thread about this that it is 'essentially a continuation of the last crusade?' Crusade = jihad. Both basically synonyms for "kill all the 'thems'"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 23, 2005 - 06:52pm PT
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fattrad,
Is that the reson this week? Then why did we had Iraq over to those same Islamic fanatics?
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 23, 2005 - 07:25pm PT
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Tell Pombo his Endangered Species Act bill sucks.
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Hootervillian
climber
halibut cove lagoon
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Oct 23, 2005 - 07:25pm PT
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When are the Saud...erh...Al Quaida...erhhh... the Syrians gonna attack? Come on fattrad, help some brothers out, any buildings/cities your gonna be staying out of in the near future?
you hurt my feelings not playin over in my yard.
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Hootervillian
climber
halibut cove lagoon
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Oct 23, 2005 - 07:37pm PT
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Atlanta and Berkeley Heh... Thanks for the 'climbers call'.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 23, 2005 - 11:40pm PT
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Thanks Fattrad.
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