Mosque to be built at ground zero

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Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 25, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
yeah mason....good thing the terrorists are not that brilliant. to cause all kinds of unrest in america just have a large terrorist event done that was blamed on mexicans and see what happens to the passel of bigots out there....
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Aug 25, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
Blueguy wrote:
Unbelievable...


what's unbelievable?
i agree with everything he said.

he didn't BLAME the WTC attacks on americans, but he did say that, due to US policy(s) toward the muslim world (past and present?) we have more innocent blood on our hands than AQ does. that's just a fact.

[edit- he used the death of children during the SH era sanctions as an example, but arguing that point is silly, as it's FAR from the only example.- /edit]





so, if you disagree with his statement, then to me, it simply demonstrates that either:

a) you are ignorant of our role in that part of the world over the last century
(for example, are you familiar with the Shaw of Iran? Do you know about his role in creating today's Iran? Do you know about our role in supporting him? Do you know why the US embassy was stormed and the Americans held hostage?)

or: b) you don't value THEIR innocent life the same way you value OUR innocent life, and that's the root of the matter, whether you want to hear it or not.

just because your cable tv news doesn't go on and on about how our policy(s) in the world happen to lead to suffering and even death for many non-americans doesn't mean everyone outside of america doesn't know it's true.






so blue, which is it, A or B?


(it was a trick question, in a way it really doesn't matter much, because either a or b supports his statement that it's a difficult conversation to have with a westerm audience.


Ps- ever see "charlie wilson's war? good flick, tom hanks, etc. good starting point if your issue is/was "A"




FINAL EDIT:
"don't know your past, don't know your future"
-Ziggy Marley
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Aug 25, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
Here he is again-

He just won't SHUT HIS PIE HOLE!!!
Why Does He HATE America!?!?!?!?!?
What a freakin TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!


BAHRAIN HAILED FOR TOLERANCE

BY REBECCA TORR , Posted on » Wednesday, August 25, 2010


BAHRAIN could have an important role to play in bridging the gap between the West and Islamic world and promoting religious tolerance, says a top New-York Imam.

American Feisal Abdul Rauf said Bahrain offered a good example of religious tolerance and cultural understanding because of its location in the Middle East, its Sunni and Shi'ite population, large expatriate community and religious freedom.

"Bahrain is already a bridge but we need to put more traffic on it," he told a group of religious experts representing Islam, Christianity and Judaism, at the majlis of Gulf Council for Foreign Relations chairman Dr Mansoor Al Arayedh in Segaiya.

"How many Americans know Bahrain has a US naval base and a Christian and Jewish community and that Bahraini Ambassador to the US Huda Nonoo is Jewish?

"How many Muslims know there is a sizeable community of Shi'ites in Bahrain? So we need to be more proactive in educating Muslims."

Imam Feisal was in the country as part of a US government-sponsored trip to Bahrain, the UAE and Qatar to discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance.

He told religious leaders in Bahrain that the most important conflicts in the world were between the children of Abraham, whether the Israeli/Palestinian conflict or the US/Iran conflict and the challenge for them was how they could play a role in bringing peace.

"We are Christians, Jews and Muslims, but one of our faults is instead of worshipping God, we worship our religion and use that to cause division between us," said Imam Feisal.

"The sense of brotherhood and unity that the prophets had for each other as servants of the true God is the primary lesson we should all learn.

"The demand is on us (Muslims) to feel a special brotherhood with the Christian and Jewish faiths and certainly our own.

"We shouldn't see differences, but see the differences that unite us and are part of one theme.

"It's time we also saw that if we followed the laws of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed they were not opposed to each other."

Imam Feisal said most Western universities had departments of Islamic studies but departments of Christian or Jewish studies were rarely seen in this part of the world.

He said it was important for those in the Islamic world to study the history and culture of Christianity and Judaism.

On politics and religion, Imam Feisal said the Islamic world was facing tension between the mosque and state, just as the West had between the church and state centuries ago.

"We need to find a way to infuse our religious practices in politics without politicising our religion," he said.

Imam Feisal is in the Middle East, hot on the heels of criticism behind plans for an Islamic centre in New York.

The proposed location is two blocks from the gaping Ground Zero hole, where the Twin Towers were destroyed by Al Qaeda terrorists on September 11, 2001, killing nearly 3,000 people.

Opponents to the proposed mosque protested in their hundreds in New York on Sunday.

Imam Feisal said he thought the attention generated by the project was positive and hoped it would bring greater understanding.

He added that if there was a proposal to build a church and synagogue alongside the mosque it would be accepted by Muslims and that he would pray for such a project.

He left Bahrain for Qatar yesterday where he will remain for three days, followed by another three days in the UAE before returning to the US.

He was born in Kuwait and educated in the US, Egypt and Malaysia.

becky@gdn.com.bh
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Aug 25, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
Maybe what the so-called "conservatives" really fear is a prominent, high profile, moderate, Muslim leader setting up shop so close to the WTC site.

philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Aug 25, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
Only in your disingenuous mind Fats. The Imam is at more risk from American red necks than Riyadh radicals.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:17pm PT
Mulsim cabbie knife slashed in NY by 21yo just because he was Muslim - the escalation continues and with every incident raises the profile of the issue and the risks to our troops abroad. Well done - republicans have now made it excruciatingly clear they don't care how many troops or US Muslims die so long as they do well in the mid-terms.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i5OdR6FH4zsmEVanHGR0y-jbOzngD9HQKVB01
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
yawn...wish there could be this much activity on putting americans back to work....or any number of more important issues.

it is this type of crap that gives americans a bad name abroad....
Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
The "alleged" perp in the slashing seems to be a tad confused.

Mr. Enright is a volunteer with Intersections International, a nonprofit that works to promote cross-cultural understanding and has spoken out in favor of the proposed Islamic cultural center near ground zero. Mr. Enright, who shuffled into court with a collared t-shirt, cargo shorts and shackles around his ankles, has also worked with veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder, Mr. Martin said.

Maybe this explains it:
A law enforcement official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said Mr. Enright was “very drunk” at the time of the attack.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/cabbie-attacked/?hp

Whackjob:

Victim:
Photos from NYT


Mason

Trad climber
Yay Area
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
I don't know, Hawkeye. I think it goes deeper than that. The news is filled with war mongering cues such as Iran's newly created "death drone" as whomever labeled it. Iran's been in the spotlight for quite a few years now. Then there's the Israeli/Palestinian issue which has also been slowly heating up. The ongoing war in Afghanistan. This whole hatred and uproar with the mosque supposedly has al-qaeda and other islamic groups hating America more which in turn has secret service and other spy agencies bumping up their monitoring of "terrorist websites."

I don't think this has a happy ending and what's worse is I think there are forces out there making sure this ends badly.

Also, I question why this Islamic cultural center is being built so close to the WTC site when there is already a mosque there. What is the motive by bringing this to the forefront now? I think it stinks. Because it is bringing us dangerously close to destroying a first amendment right, older than 200 years and something hundreds of thousands died for.
Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
Also, I question why this Islamic cultural center is being built so close to the WTC site when there is already a mosque there. What is the motive by bringing this to the forefront now? I think it stinks. Because it is bringing us dangerously close to destroying a first amendment right, older than 200 years and something hundreds of thousands died for.

Just want to make sure I understand. Is it "this Islamic cultural center" that "is bringing us dangerously close to destroying a first amendment right, older than 200 years and something hundreds of thousands died for"?

g
Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 06:58pm PT
Thanks Fattrad.

I can read that into it as well. Kind of an ambiguous statement, at least to me.

g
Mason

Trad climber
Yay Area
Aug 25, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
Gene,

If this mosque is denied the permit to build on grounds that it's anti-9/11 and the mob has determined that islam is a threat, then that is a direct obstruction of a 1st amendment right. It's a slippery slope.

Hope that makes it clear.

Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
Mason,

I could not agree with you more! You are correct. Mob rule and fear mongering have no place in our society. Thanks for clarifying.

I will work on my reading comprehension skills.

Best,
Gene
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Aug 25, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
Also, I question why this Islamic cultural center is being built so close to the WTC site when there is already a mosque there. What is the motive by bringing this to the forefront now? I think it stinks. Because it is bringing us dangerously close to destroying a first amendment right, older than 200 years and something hundreds of thousands died for.


Mason,

1) don't glean for actual valid "info" here on stupidtopo, but...

2) it may be in large part because the whole area near WTC is do economically depressed, and buildings are empty and available for a song.

3) it's not as if (as the wingnuts would have you believe) the evil muslims are trying to build near the WTC per se, that's just where you can buy a 17 story bldg in manhattan for just 4.5 mil...


edit
and btw-
4) it's actually quite difficult (thankfully so) to "destroy" rights, particularly those enshrined into the constitution, be it the 1st amendment or the 14th.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:01pm PT
Well, Matt and Mason, if you'd go back and read some previous posts by people like myself who oppose this 'mosque', you'd find that we said they have every right under the Constitution to build it, it's just poor taste because so many oppose it and find it a little pushy.

You have every right to tell me to go f*#k myself, but does that create goodwill when you're trying to have us 'get along'?

If the silly Imam is so dead-set on creating goodwill between different peoples and so many are really opposed to this, doesn't that do the opposite of his stated goals???
Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
Well, Matt and Mason, if you'd go back and read some previous posts by people like myself who oppose this 'mosque', you'd find that we said they have every right under the Constitution to build it, it's just poor taste because so many oppose it and find it a little pushy.

Bluey,

Those damn uppity Muslims. They are SO pushy. Do Poor taste and being a little pushy {your words} outweigh their Constitutional and human rights?

g

EDIT: Bluey's reasoning would have had Martin Luther King's August 28, 1963 I Have a Dream speech take place not at the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, but in Keyes, California.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
Do Poor taste and being a little pushy {your words} outweigh their Constitutional and human rights?

Didn't I already say it did not??? Several times?
Gene

Social climber
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
So why not let them go for it? Why on earth do you oppose Cordoba?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
So why not let them go for it?

Because it is pissing a majority of people off! It's having the opposite effect of the Imam's stated aims. It isn't bringing people together. It's proven to be abrasive to most New Yorkers and Americans in general.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 25, 2010 - 08:56pm PT
It's only pissing off morons who are being manipulated by a Rovian republican midterm strategy. They in turn are pissing off Muslims around the world and inciting a higher threat level for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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