Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 08:45am PT
|
The "science" put your helicoptors in the air. Where's the gratitude?
In the beginning, someone dreamed of flying.
That is why there are helicopters in the air.
Believing is thinking with creativity.
So, if there was a higher power, that could mess with the laws of physics, chemistry and biology. Imagine the creative possibilities.
And, if there was a spiritual world to boot? Now that is just getting interesting.
I would recommend a good mechanic who is more scientific than spiritual to work on the helicopters.
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:44am PT
|
I'm glad that BluBlocr has a higher power. The stuff he writes! Phew. Sheer nonsense. He promotes using the government to make rules on gays and then immediately says that we shouldn't rely on government.
He then tells us to see with our noses.
I'm the first to admit that my writing skills suck! I see a trend that my sincere opinion is not being projected the way I want in a paragraph or two. I will refrain.
It is politics that make us stand up and voice our opinion. Somany times when opinions don't match, one side gets pronounced a Hater. This is what I can't stand in politics. Politics tries to make absolutes out of everything. If the government says its OK to start driving at 16, people are gonna do it. If the gov says its ok to start smoking at age 18 people are going to do it. If the gov says its ok to drink when 21 their gonna do it because the government said its ok. But isn't it up to parents to teach its better not to smoke in the first place. That's all I meant by not relying on the government.
My bad.
I only wish we were having these discussions face to face..
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
|
I don't want to Google it, but I know Da Vinci, Galileo did the original blueprints for a medievel 'helicopter'.
These were both men of God AND science. They can coexist, science and religion.
And Einstein even said that there had to be a higher intelligence to put the things he saw in motion.
As to how you define a country as this-or-that is kinda weird. But we were founded by deeply Christian men and women. And most of our current population identifies with a higher power, which most call God.
Doesn't mean you have to, but that's just the way it is. Me and the Chief agree on his points.
EDIT: I'm glad that BluBlocr has a higher power. The stuff he writes! Phew. Sheer nonsense. He promotes using the government to make rules on gays and then immediately says that we shouldn't rely on government.
He then tells us to see with our noses.
Pick up a Constitution sometime. The Fed and the States have separate jurisdictions. The States are entitled to operate independently if they do not violate Fed Constitutional law. The 5th/14th Amends is a weak argument here in terms of gays.
|
|
Tvash
climber
Seattle
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
|
That the universe is really big and really powerful isn't exactly the most profound revelation I've ever come across.
Gay marriage bans have been struck down in 7 states in the past few months. Apparently, the 14th Amendment is a good argument.
More to the point, though, the government must show a compelling reason to deny a certain group equal rights. "Christians don't like it" apparently hasn't proven to be a very compelling reason in Federal District courts so far this year.
Even Christians wouldn't want a government that can deny human rights without having to show a compelling reason.
That can really backfire on ya.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
|
That the universe is really big and really powerful isn't exactly the most profound revelation I've ever come across.
That's neither here-nor-there, in fact it's just one man's opinion. In fact it even more facetious when you do not add what you actually DO find to be profound revelations.
You've stated nothing of worth. In addition to the cosmos and the heavens, and the bizarre events that we're subjected to, I find the oceans to be totally fascinating. That and they way they interact with the Moon and the rest of the Solar System. A powerful lady, the oceans.
|
|
Tvash
climber
Seattle
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
|
What personal experiences have you had with oceans, Bluering, other than looking at them?
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
|
We are not a Christian Nation. We are Nation founded by Christians. Their intent was to welcome everyone that wanted to work hard for a nation where everyone, regardless of belief, race etc., could succeed. Some Christians have lost the plot
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
|
Bluey, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin were FAR from religious but the religious affiliations of the founding fathers 227 years ago is irrelevant. The abiding strength of our democray (the worlds oldest) is the diversity of our people. Diversity in ethnicity, cultures, and religious beliefs AND non beliefs.
|
|
Tvash
climber
Seattle
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
|
Not really. Not at all, in fact.
Franklin and Jefferson were deists, Washington was a pantheist, John Adams wound up as a Unitarian, and Hamilton was a barely practicing Anglican.
Nope, not a hard core Christian in the bunch. Certainly nothing that would even remotely resemble today's Evangelicals.
The whole Founding Father Christian thing is what you'd expect: Modern day bullshit to foster a modern day agenda for a special interest group.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:29pm PT
|
We are not a Christian Nation. We are Nation founded by Christians. Their intent was to welcome everyone that wanted to work hard for a nation where everyone, regardless of belief, race etc., could succeed. Some Christians have lost the plot
Yes, exactly. A quick look at the Bill of Rights and the Declaration, and various other quotes by Founders can lead one to any interpretation one likes to choose. Both sides of the argument.
But the fact remains that the country was founded by Christians. That is indisputable.
Despite being deeply religious, almost all Founders, in their infinite wisdom and humility, decided that religion should remain private and not a function of the gov't. Hence the portion of the 1st amend.
BUT! They also did not want gov't to PREVENT the free exercise of religion. Indeed, they wanted people to freely express any religion, if it was in the bounds of other laws.
The kicker nowadays is that the only people imposing gov't on religion are the FEDs! That is un-constitutional!!!!
(They discriminate on gays through IRS tax-laws, it's the States that are trying to prevent this, but you all just think States are homophobes).
EDIT: The whole Founding Father Christian thing is what you'd expect: Modern day bullshit to foster a modern day agenda for a special interest group.
This is untrue and a fabrication. A re-write of historical documents.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
|
no that is accurate. It is Bullshit engineered to serve some special interest... not hard guessing who too. Lets say for the sake of argument they were all hard core fundies every last one of them. So what? Does it in any way alter the meaning and interpretation of your founding articles and constitution? Hardly. They may as well have been a bunch of Hindu's or scientologists for all it matters.
Or does it? You mean to tell me they were insinuating christian doctrine into your constitution Bluey? Is that what you're saying? If not then whats the point in even discussing it?
You're not listening to what I just previously posted. They were religious but put boundaries in place because they knew what could happen. Either way.
Read again what I posted above.
EDIT: Dingus would have us eliminate the clause entirely in the 1st Amend. because he's a fascist. He wants all people he disagrees with silenced, especially the American majority, Christians.
There should only be the State, and no religion! (Especially those pesky Christians)
|
|
anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:53pm PT
|
I thought it was midichlorians that put helicopters in the air?
|
|
sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
|
The founding of this continent is as far from christian ideals as possible. Think Native genocide before espousing the wonderful attributes of our founding fathers
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
|
What is the purpose in drawing attention to the claim of christian heritage in the founding fathers?
Facts, much?
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2014 - 11:59pm PT
|
I thought it was midichlorians that put helicopters in the air?
Da Vinci was the original Jedi;
http://www.da-vinci-inventions.com/aerial-screw.aspx
EDIT: The founding of this continent is as far from christian ideals as possible. Think Native genocide before espousing the wonderful attributes of our founding fathers
Typical liberal crap. Change the subject! Maybe we should have left those nice Indians to kill themselves, because they always so nice to each other and never savages. Never!
We brought nothing of value to humanity after coming here.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 21, 2014 - 12:08am PT
|
What we brought together were many Western concepts. Natural law, the Bible, and Manifest Destiny. Our COnstitution and our legal systen is based on all of those.
The men who fought for the country and wrote the subsequent documents were basing much on those 3 docs. And there was much discussion to get to the final doc.
The Fedarlists and anti-Federalists were much at odds. They settled, and the Federalists (pro State-law) won IMO.
I would consider myself a Federalist today. State's rights, baby.
|
|
go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
|
|
|
May 21, 2014 - 12:12am PT
|
...if everyone turns to "Christ" it could be! :)
|
|
sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
|
|
|
May 21, 2014 - 12:35am PT
|
We invaded a continent and wiped everyone out through disease, rape, alcoholism, christian manifest destiny bullsh#t, and genocide. From the tip of South America to the Aleutian Islands . Dispute that fact please. Oh yes, don't forget 60 million buffalo as well. Vital components to a healthy ecosystem in the Plains, but goddamn those pesky Comanche, Kiowa, Arapaho, etc. who wouldn't be tamed.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!