Mosque to be built at ground zero

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Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:57am PT
^^
Pathetic.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Fatrad said:

I'm generally in favor of having the mosque situated as planned, however, we may live in a global community, but we are in a "Clash of Civilizations" with Islam.


The evil one


THAT, I agree with.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
This is relevant to the topic at hand . . .

War on Prayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKISER0PG-0




If we say where they can build their Mosque, or we say when they can pray and worship, then it comes back to you and me also. Now they can say where we can build our churches, and when we can pray and worship, and where.

This is a 1st Admendment Right. Let them build their Mosque where they choose.

Besides, Muslims with box-cutter knives did not pull-off 9-11-01. They were patsies. So why should we be upset where they build their Mosques?

It is a 1st Admendment Right issue. I'm for protecting our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Let them build it where they want to and can afford to.
Gene

Social climber
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
Good video Klimmer. Thanks for posting. Seems rather basic to me.

g
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
Nicely said, Klimmer.
Mason

Trad climber
Yay Area
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
I think that if the people force Muslims to give up their 1st amendment right and block the building of this Mosque

1) We doom ourselves because we've broken a sacred 1st amendment right of all Americans
2) We slowly fall deeper into the black hole of a new dark ages where fear and hate take over logic and reason.

Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Aug 23, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
lowest, nobody really cares what you think about this anymore, seriously.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 23, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
Very likely because the Amish are CHRISTIANS, same as the vast majority of Americans.


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 23, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
Pretty good Lois, turned sixty yesterday, old and achy but still kicking.

Hope all is well in your life.

Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Aug 23, 2010 - 05:38pm PT
Excerpts from an article published today in the WSJ, Protests, Rhetoric Feed Jihadists' Fire, By JONATHAN WEISMAN:

“Islamic radicals are seizing on protests against a planned Islamic community center near Manhattan's Ground Zero and anti-Muslim rhetoric elsewhere as a propaganda opportunity and are stepping up anti-U.S. chatter and threats on their websites.

One jihadist site vowed to conduct suicide bombings in Florida to avenge a threatened Koran burning, while others predicted an increase in terrorist recruits as a result of such actions.

"By Allah, the wars are heated and you Americans are the ones who…enflamed it," says one such posting. "By Allah you will be the first to taste its flames."

“A U.S. official on Sunday said the administration was taking the upswing in anti-U.S. chatter seriously. "Terrorists like al-Qaeda and its violent allies are motivated already to try to attack the United States, but when it comes to propaganda, extremists are pure opportunists. They'll use whatever they can," the official said.

Jarret Brachman, director of Cronus Global, a security consulting firm, and author of the book Global Jihadism, said al Qaeda and other groups have long used imagery from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to recruit new members. But the U.S. position has been that those wars are not against Islam and that the U.S. has Muslim allies in the fight. Anti-Muslim rhetoric in the U.S is different, since jihadists can use Americans' words to make the case that the U.S. is indeed at war with Islam. The violent postings are not just on al Qaeda-linked websites but on prominent, mainstream Muslim chat forums, Mr. Brachman said. "We are handing al Qaeda a propaganda coup, an absolute propaganda coup," with the Islamic-center controversy, said Evan Kohlmann, an independent terrorism consultant at Flashpoint Partners who monitors jihadist websites.

Critics of the proposed Islamic center said their right to speak out shouldn't be influenced by the possibility of jihadist threats. "We will never win a war when we are afraid to even name our enemies," former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said in an e-mail Sunday.

The most violent threats stem not from the debate over the Islamic center but more fringe issues, such as a declaration by Terry Jones, pastor at the Dove World Outreach Center, a mega-church in Gainesville, Fla., that Sept. 11 be an "International Burn a Koran Day." In an interview Sunday, Mr. Jones said he planned to go ahead with the Koran burning on the evening of Sept. 11, despite the local fire department denying a permit for the event. He said the jihadist threats only confirmed his views of Muslims.

jonathan.weisman@wsj.com

The best hand held sign:
Eat Pray Love
No Problem
Just Not in This Zipcode

This seems to say that the Ground Zero Jihadist Prayer and Bomb Making Center is the same as the book or the movie titles, "Eat, Pray, Love." Damn, now they will have to shut down any theater that shows the movie or book store that sells the book. Maybe it is just the movie, since Julia Roberts is clearly a terrorist threat.

I don't know what to make of Newt's comment. Both Bush and Obama have made many statements that we are not a war with Islam, but Newt seems to think that we are. There is a long list of Muslim countries that are US allies. He must be a presidential candidate.

Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
Aug 23, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
I think in the long run this brouhaha will be good for the cultural center. A lot of people would not have heard of this center and its leaders otherwise. I had not paid any attention to imam Rauf, but now that I am reading about him, I am very impressed. I think that the Cordoba Initiative organization will now get funding from a much wider array of people across the United States, because so many more people are now aware of it. It really seems like a great project and a great cause.
http://www.cordobainitiative.org/

As for all the people upset and afraid of this project, only time might ease their fears. I can't blame them for wanting to protect our country from a perceived threat. We all want to be useful somehow.
Gene

Social climber
Aug 23, 2010 - 05:51pm PT
Roger,

Dove World Outreach Center, a mega-church in Gainesville, Fla.,


Dove World's bark is larger than its bite. They get a disproportionate amount of press. Just like their affiliate, Westboro of God Hates Fags fame.

According to an article published this moth by the Gainesville Sun paper at
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100812/ARTICLES/8121043

Dove World, which had an estimated 80 members last year, is also exempt from income taxes, but at least one group, Americans United for Separation of Church and State based in Washington, D.C., has called for the Internal Revenue Service to investigate that exemption, too.

The size of Dove World has nothing to do with the points raised in the article.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Aug 23, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
But I like the name, "Dove World Outreach Center."

I immediately thought this is the sort of organization that would burn the holy book of another religion.

In the CNN interview with the Most Reverend Terry Jones, he was quick to point out that he had no quarrel with Muslims just with Islam.

Of course, he comes from a great line of Christian pathmakers:

"It would be good for religion if many books that seem useful were destroyed. When there were not so many books and not so many arguments and disputes, religion grew more quickly than it has since." Girolamo Savonarola



I think that Stephen Colbert is behind Jones. Maybe Newt, too. I am certain that he wrote the "Eat Pray Love" sign. Who else could extract such comedy from such evil intent?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 23, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
Protesting this Islamic community center has been completely unamerican, simpatico with OBL's belief the two religions shouldn't mix, and has done enormous damage as far as making our service men and womens' jobs that much more difficult and dangerous in Iraq and Afghanistan. In short, you are undermining and f*#king our troops, not supporting them.
Gene

Social climber
Aug 23, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
^^^^ Yup!

The hysteria drummed up about this project is an abject surrender to the miniscule number of people, Muslim or otherwise, who support OBL and his ilk.

To think that we wasted the opportunity to be who we profess to be. It'll take a long time and potentially many lives to undo this bigotry.

Mission Accomplished.

g
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:01pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:03pm PT
Guys let's try to convince the Muslim people of Iraq and Afghanistan that we are a better choice as allies than Al Qaeda or the Taliban by freaking the f*#k out about Muslims trying to build a cultural center in our country THIS PLAN CANNOT FAIL.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:08pm PT
IT WILL WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:08pm PT
Are we doomed to repeat??

State apologizes for mistreatment of Italian residents during WWII

Legislature passes resolution expressing 'deepest regret' for the wartime internment, curfews, confiscations and other indignities that thousands of Italian and Italian American families faced.

By Steve Chawkins, Los Angeles Times

August 23, 2010

Reporting from Monterey — When Mike Maiorana was a boy during World War II, his family was like a lot of others in his Monterey neighborhood.

In 1942, his mother was declared an "enemy alien," along with 600,000 other Italians and half a million Germans and Japanese who weren't U.S. citizens. More than once, men in suits searched the Maiorana house for guns, flashlights, cameras, shortwave radios — anything that could be used to signal the enemy.

Like 10,000 others up and down the California coast, the family was suddenly forced to uproot. At their new place in Salinas, they had to be home by 8 p.m. or face arrest. And when the government seized fishing boats for the war effort, Maiorana's dad, a naturalized U.S. citizen, saw his livelihood go down the drain.

"He was on the skids for the rest of his life," said Maiorana, 75, who owns a boatyard and marina on the harbor where his father's boat — as well as those of his uncles and several dozen other Italian fishermen — were confiscated.

Families like the Maioranas last week received a formal acknowledgement from California. A measure that swiftly made its way through the Legislature expresses the state's "deepest regrets" over the mistreatment of Italians and Italian Americans during World War II. Not nearly as severe or long-lasting as the internment of Japanese Americans, the wartime restrictions are still little-known throughout California, where they were the most heavily enforced.

The resolution was the brainchild of a 79-year-old San Jose man who entered a legislator's annual "There Oughta Be a Law" contest.

"The treatment Italians received in California was horrible," said Chet Campanella, who recalled his father hiding a radio in a backyard chicken coop. "There wasn't one tiny bit of evidence that any Italian was responsible for spying, sabotage, or doing anything else to hinder the war effort."

Sen. Joe Simitian (D-Palo Alto) sponsored a bill based on Campanella's idea.

"I was wholly unaware of the circumstances he described," Simitian said. "Somehow this story had passed me by."

Simitian, an attorney and former Palo Alto mayor, said he saw "contemporary importance" in the effort: "We're at war on the other side of the world, and I think it's important to remember that there are millions of Americans who are ethnic Arabs or Muslim by faith, and that they're good Americans."

No comparable measure has been passed by the state or federal government on behalf of more than 11,000 interned Germans, including some Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler.

Even before war broke out, the FBI had compiled lists of immigrants who were considered dangerous. Among the Italians, there were journalists, language teachers and men active in an Italian veterans group. After Pearl Harbor, about 250 were sent to camps in Montana and elsewhere.

They were seen — without basis, according to many historians — as ardent supporters of Mussolini. But the dictator's popularity in the Italian community had waned, despite his sponsorship of community centers, Italian language classes and trips back to the homeland for U.S. immigrants.

Gloria Ricci Lothrop, a professor emeritus of history at Cal State Northridge, said her future stepfather, the editor of the Italian-language La Parola newspaper in Los Angeles, was hustled off to Fort Missoula, Mont., in a train with darkened windows. Giovanni Falasca stayed there until war's end. He later started a restaurant on Figueroa Street, where he was beaten to death during a robbery.

Lower on the watch list, Lothrop's mother, Maria Ricci, was a poet and La Parola columnist. The FBI fruitlessly scoured translations of her work for subversive content, Lothrop said. An agent in a fedora and double-breasted suit showed up repeatedly but would end up talking to her about gardening.

**In New York, the FBI incarcerated Metropolitan Opera star Ezio Pinza and released him, without charge, three months later.

In San Francisco, Joe DiMaggio's father Giuseppe couldn't visit the family restaurant on Fisherman's Wharf: As an enemy alien, he could not travel more than five miles without permission.**

Enforcement was chaotic. On the East Coast, with its massive Italian population, there was no forced relocation. In California, the mandate hit Northern California harder than the Los Angeles area.

In the Bay Area, Pittsburg was home to Camp Stoneman, a jumping-off point for Pacific-bound troops. About 2,000 Italians were ousted from the community, with the burden falling most on elderly people who didn't speak much English and hadn't become citizens.

Lucy Gallaro Dube of Orange County recalls her widowed grandmother cramming into a house with half a dozen other displaced women.

"She was just a few months from getting her citizenship," Dube said. "I don't know what they thought these old ladies were going to do."

Sad ironies abounded. In Monterey, Rosina Trovato was told that her son and nephew had died at Pearl Harbor. The next day, she was ordered to leave her home.

Then there was the confiscation of fishing boats from California's mostly Italian fleet. Paying their owners a nominal fee, the government used them to haul targets and refuel PT boats. But the cost of postwar repairs and a vanishing sardine fishery spelled disaster for many.

Angelo Maiorana, Mike's father, owned the 95-foot Dux, which was returned to him in bad shape after four years in the Philippines.

"They gave him a $20,000 check, but it cost him $46,000 to get the boat back into condition," his son said. "He was on his back, flat broke."

In 2000, Congress passed a bill formally acknowledging "injustices" during World War II.

One of its most eloquent advocates was Lawrence DiStasi, a writer and historian who put together "Una Storia Segreta," a travelling exhibit on the wartime restrictions.

"When we started, I had trouble getting people to talk about it," he said. "There was still a lot of shame, stress and pain."

Most of the measures ended within a year. The government realized they were logistically impossible — especially with hundreds of thousands of Italian Americans fighting for the U.S. overseas.

On Columbus Day in 1942, U.S. Atty. Gen. Francis Biddle announced the good news in a speech laden with references to Dante, Galileo and Leonardo da Vinci.

"We found," he said, "that 600,000 enemy aliens were, in fact, not enemies."
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Aug 23, 2010 - 07:08pm PT
THEY WILL THROW FLOWERS WHEN THEY GET A TASTE OF AMERICAN FREEDOM
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