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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Sunrise and sunset. Really?
Questioning that sounds stupid.
Sunrise and sunset is VERY official and is used in hunting and aviation along with many other applications. It is very specific also.
Here are some examples.
Yosemite helicopter 551 is not allowed to fly 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 after sunset. Very official and all about safety.
Most states have hunting regs that say the same thing. No hunting at night. Ever want to keep your hunting privilege in the west, don’t break a hunting law.
Today in Yosemite
Official Sunrise = 6:34
Official Sunset = 19:17
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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They arrest him around sundown and haul him away to jail. Then they go back for his car which of course is still parked there because he wasn't able to drive it away and charge him for improper food storage after sundown.
What's next? If he was standing there with a kid, would they have cited him for "child abandonment" after they hauled him off to jail leaving the kid the in the meadow? Seems unreasonable.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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I counted 11 typos in 3 pages. Just what kind of people is the Park Service hiring these days?
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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churched?
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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Average?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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It's to believe that McNeely would voluntarily admit not only that he had committed the crime that he was arrested for (and that it was premeditated and he knew it was illegal), but also that he had jumped twice before.
Do they use waterboarding in Yosemite, or did he just drink more beer than he could handle?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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They arrest him around sundown and haul him away to jail. Then they go back for his car which of course is still parked there because he wasn't able to drive it away and charge him for improper food storage after sundown. Ever read Catch-22?
Technically he was in violation of food storage because he was first seen in the air after sundown.
If he hadn't left the cooler in his car would they have had the right to open his vehicle and find the stuff?
As has been mentioned several times, when you try to evade the Constabulary they'll throw the book at you. Or fatty will crack your skull. Or both.
Fatty obviously didn't need no stinkin' Taser. Neither did Ammon's arresting officers. InMyNotSoHumbleOpinion.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Maybe they took Ammon to a back room and gave him some gentle persuasion to confess, like I did to a certain PCP seller....... with a Maglite.
Fattrad, sure making yourself look bad.
I was expecting you to follow up with
"Cases don't get dismissed and spelling mistakes don't making it to court and win over the jury."
"Ammon implicated his girlfriend as well in the interview. They know who the girl is that 'fled the area'."
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Well it didn't take long to go down the road of spelling and grammar.
A defense attorney will not even go there. There are much bigger things to work on. Spelling is very petty and child like.
If you are picking on a cop for spelling or grammar it will back fire on you in front of the jury or judge.
There was still a crime committed.
Cops might only have a high school education. Like many of the jury. How many people out there are PREFECT on spelling and grammar? Even with computer help? No one is perfect. We are all human.
The jury will question the defense. “Why are they working with something so small? Takes a lot of money to have an attorney or PD. Hope that attorney isn’t a fool like the criminal and is earning his $250+ an hour. Better have something more than a spelling error. I hate it when people pick on me for spelling.”
Jury sympathy for the police.
The jury or judge relate to the police much more than the supposed criminal. Especially after jury selection has been made and the extremes on either side are removed.
How many people out there are PREFECT on spelling and grammar? Even with computer help? No one is perfect. We are all human.
The cop is an average public servant doing the best they can.
For a jury, judge, DA you better have more than a spelling mistake. If spelling is such a big part of your defense you really don't have a case.
Did I say that all ready? We are only human. Jury will understand and move on. It is not the catalyst to such bigger mistakes. Like pot, that leads to more dangerous drugs.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It depends on what discretion the prosecution has to amend the wording of the charge(s). Given that an accused has a constitutional right to know the exact charge(s) against him/her, sooner rather than later, so as to prepare a defence, it may not be a lot.
For example, one of the charges says "between sundown and sunset". Presumably they meant "between sunset and sunrise" or "between sundown and sunup", but it doesn't take a bright defence lawyer (or physicist) to notice and point out that no time elapses between sundown and sunset - it's the same time. Which arguably means that the government hasn't specified when the offence allegedly took place, an essential element of the charge. Whether or when the prosecution could amend that charge, or withdraw and refile it, follows.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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1) The same max punishment for food storage as threatening, resisting etc. a LEO. Really?
2) drinking cheap light beer. Should be tased for that alone.
3) "Nature Light Beer", so are they going to tase Nature at the Facelift?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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This whole case is pathetic, and is indicative of how FUed a society we have become.
I really don't have much tolerance for stupidity, however, which is what Ammon exhibited. Being somewhat "intoxicated" shouldn't be a crime either, especially if one is walking on a trail. Use of the "herb?" I couldn't care less. The food storage charge should be thrown out as being caused by the arrest.
What the LEOs are doing now is called "piling on," hoping to have enough charges pending to force a negotiated, plea bargain arrangement on one of the charges.
What I DON'T approve of is the substantial escaltion in use of force and tasing! All of the Taser guns should be taken away from the park LEOs.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Title 36 CFR deals with National Parks and more.
Each Park is a little different.
Here is the 36 CFR with the Superinendent's Compendium for Yosemite.
Food storage (36 CFR 2.10(d)) is on page 20.
It pretty much says unattended food, coolers, and such must be properly stored and out off sight at all times.
All you need to know about the specifics in Yosemite.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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What we all need to do is "eschew stupidity!"
In the case discussed here, Ammon violated that essential rule.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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"Cops might only have a high school education. Like many of the jury. How many people out there are PREFECT on spelling and grammar? Even with computer help? No one is perfect. We are all human."
The complaint is not the work of some beat cop with a GRE. It's the work of the prosecutor who is presumably an attorney and presumably puts in (or SHOULD have put in) more time in effort into her work on a federal filing than we put into a typical Supertopo forum post. Yet she made more errors than most Supertopo posters would be expected to make in a post of that length. To have this many errors in a short, three page complaint shows sloppiness and inattention to detail. This is an embarrassment to the Park and reduces the credibility of the prosecutor in front of the court.
But this will not let Ammon off the hook. If this goes to trial, it will be the testimony of the rangers who were at the scene that counts. If they show the attention to detail that they should and prove the case, the carelessness of the prosecutor in putting together the complaint won't make much difference.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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The same max punishment for food storage as threatening, resisting etc. a LEO. Really?
That was my reaction too. Next time you carelessly forget to put some food in the storage locker, remember that you have committed a federal crime that has that carries the same maximum penalties as does BASE jumping El Cap or threatening a ranger!
But how often do we see rangers chase after someone and tase them for improper food storage?
What is the maximum penalty for speeding in the park? Is it a $5,000 fine and 6 months in prison, just like everything else?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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"I know a couple of really good Fed. defense attorneys if Ammon needs a referral. "
Even if 1/3 of that is true, he's gonna need it, big time...
Ammon's in real trouble with this one. Curious to see what a plea bargain will result in.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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5 mister meanies, big deal.
under an ounce by 1 gram, rangers suck it UP!
throw it out with a fine of 1000 bucks.
they had no right to search the vehicle .
any evidence obtained after the fact is inadmissable.
your witness...
chris rock you Suck.
i used to have respect, but you sold out to the rule crazy cops!
what did you get busted for?
frickin hypokrit.
hey, is there even a taser in that video? if not, pretty lame to keep posting it, jus sayin...
Fletcher Ogg.
now theres a bar room name if i ever heard it,
"who tased you"
"fletcher ogg"
"say what?"
"is that like, some kind of zoo animal from tanzania or something?"
"yeah, the ogg is related to the african dik dik."
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Y'all realize that the much-lauded founder of this very site, and publisher of all those red-bound guidebooks, faced a court date for an illegal BASE jump within recent memory. June 2009 I think?
5K fine and a year probation including no entry into National Parks, if I am not mistaken?
I would wager that he did not get tased because: he wasn't inebriated, wasn't carrying, didn't run, and copped to it.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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I thought he wasn't actually caught. They videoed the jump and the park used the video as evidence.
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