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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 27, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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I just saw this. I've already ranted extensively about how we need to defund and de-militarize these "public servants" who all too frequently end up thinking they are our overlords. Take our damn money back and keep it away from them. Bastards. It's starting to become US against THEM. Which is unfortunate for our country.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151917391502041&v=info
Ammon McNeeley or anyone being tazered for this is total bullshit and so wrong. To start with, jumping off cliffs shouldn't be illegal, and it's so f*#ked up and opposed to what at the very core of what our country stands for that the police can steal your stuff (the new forfeiture laws) if they do catch you. For an average dirtbag, to steal 80 percent of their net worth for something which is a personal choice and not illegal anywhere else in the world, even in dictatorships, is way over the top punishment.
Of course, rich dudes can jump on a plane and fly over to Europe anywhere and legally jump off the Eiger or whatever they wish, so it's the true dirtbags and the fiscally challenged who get stuck in the eye by this law. I suppose it would be similar to the police stealing a drivers car for not using their turn signal. For a person who is deeply invested in their auto, like a warehouseman who had purchased a Mercedes or a Lexus, it is crazy restrictive and regressive. For a rich dude, he'd shrug if off and go buy another Lexus, but for a poor person fully leveraged it would be painfully regressive. I'm all for making people obey officers, I do and think we all should: but if the authorities are going to steal your stuff over any minor thing, plan on most Lexus's driving off when it gets pulled over for simply not using a turn signal.
One of the things wrong with this country is that we pass sh#t loads of stupid bullshit laws and then make criminals of good people over little things, and the jails are stuffed full. The taxpayers get the shaft and we all lose bits of freedom. Who wins here? We do this more than any other country in the world and it's so damn costly and counterproductive.
In addition to his climbing skill, Ammon is widely known for his honesty, kindness, helpfulness and generosity. Good people like Ammon shouldn't be sh#t on by the system like this. For myself, I wish him well. What we as citizens need to do is stop funding these paramilitary wantabe police as#@&%es who are driving a wedge between good people and these who would be our overlords. Enough is enough and we all had enough of this bullshit a long time ago.
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Aug 27, 2010 - 12:50am PT
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Well, it is ILLEGAL after all. Did he yell "don't TAZE me Bro"?
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EP
Trad climber
Way Out There
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Aug 27, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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A tasing for an illegal base jump is totally out of line.
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Aug 27, 2010 - 12:54am PT
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The cops there have killed people for less. He got lucky.
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Cpt0bvi0u5
Trad climber
Merced CA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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And the park service does it again...
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:13am PT
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I would like to hear why Ammon was tazed.
Sad day for the monkeys.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:15am PT
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I pulled up the facebook. Not much information there. Is this all you have?
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:20am PT
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Committing a crime DOES NOT = Taser
Resisting arrest and belligerent behavior = NON LETHAL force = Taser
Taser is in the MIDDLE
Use of Force Paradigm
* Officer presence
* Verbal commands
* Soft hands (control tactics/wrist locks/OC spray)
* Hard hands (strike points/impact weapons)
* Lethal force (firearm/strike points to vital areas)
Who got to Taser him?
Lober, Gabriel, Hofflach, Bellino
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:27am PT
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Chris Mac got busted in Grand Canyon and Ammon is busted in Yosemite.
The sentence and the fine are going to hurt.
Expect maximum sentencing for this. It is a misdemeanor but you still can get $5000 fine and a year in jail.
How long will he be banded from National Parks? YEARS
What kind of record does Ammon have?
Resisting arrest or violent behavior toward cops in called aggravating circumstances.
Ups the price to get out of jail.
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:35am PT
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At least these Yosemite LEO's knew which holster had the taser - he's lucky it wasn't the BART police. Or maybe the chickenshtt LEO meant to shoot him and pulled the taser by mistake.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:50am PT
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36 CFR 2.17 (a)(3)
The following are prohibited:
Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute,
helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving
public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and
conditions of a permit.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 01:52am PT
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"Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time..."
I'm sure Ammon is aware.
The fine/time could hurt, though.
On the facebook discussion page, Kait said he was released the next day.
But I imagine he wants to "lay low" on this one and hope for a lenient sentence.
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Aug 27, 2010 - 02:28am PT
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Sort of reminds me of a much more serious version of a story from Grateful Dead lore I heard that was inspiration for a song with the lyric "smilin' on a cloudy day." There's a suggestion at the end of the interview below (I edited a bit for readability) that it takes more these days than disrespecting an officer to merit getting roughed up. For what it's worth, some of you may appreciate:
Lesh: Water balloon episode?
MM: Uh-oh!
DG: Oh, I wanna hear this!
Weir: I got him good. . . . I was on the third floor of . . . our place in the Haight-Ashbury. . . . [T]here was this cop who was illegally searching a car belonging to a friend of ours . . . down on the street - the cops used to harass us . . . every chance they got. They didn't care for the hippies back then. . . . [S]o I had a water balloon, and what was I gonna do with this water balloon, come on. And, uh...
Lesh: Just happened to have a water balloon, in his hand...
MM: See, I wasn't gonna bring that up...
Lesh: ...ladies and gentlemen.
Weir: And so I got him right square on the head, and uh...
Lesh: A prettier shot you never saw.
Weir: ...and . . . he couldn't tell where it was comin' from, but then I had to go . . . and walk across the street and just grin at him...
Lesh, MM, DG:
Weir:...and sorta rub it in a little bit.
DG: Smilin' on a cloudy day. I understand now.
Lesh, DG:
MM: It all becomes clear.
Weir: . . . [A]t that point, he decided to hell with due process of law, this kid's goin' to jail. He didn't have a thing on me . . . It never got to court, but on the other hand, I did get thrown in jail and beat up a little bit.
MM: I still want to go back; you just happened to have that water balloon handy, it was kind of just like standard procedure.
DG: Gee, I wonder if...
Weir: He was the guy that was breakin' the law, too, the cop was.
MM: That's, that's - I agree.
Weir: I guess - . . . what does a water balloon amount to, is that assault with a, uh...
DG: Friendly weapon.
MM: With a moist weapon.
Lesh, DG:
MM: That goes under the water laws.
DG:
MM: And if it was tap water, that also...
Lesh: Disrespect for an officer.
Weir: Right.
DG: That was enough in those days - as I recall.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Aug 27, 2010 - 02:36am PT
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Sorry to here about this. Have enjoyed watching his videos/adventures over the years. Hopefully charges will be dropped or at least minimized.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 27, 2010 - 03:11am PT
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According to Facebook his hearing is on the 14th. Nothing on which to go here.
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maui_mark
climber
under a coconut tree
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Aug 27, 2010 - 03:19am PT
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BASE jumping is a PERMITTED ACTIVITY.
He got busted for performing an activity with-out a permit.
Parachute Delivery under current CFR regulations is a PERMITTED ACTIVITY.
SO ... what is the fine for CAMPING without a PERMIT??
HIKING without a PERMIT?
DO they throw you in JAIL?
TASER YOU?
BASE JUMPING in NPS is a PERMITTED ACTIVITY!!!
The NPS just REFUSE to accept and acknowledge anyones request for a PERMIT.
What if it was a GUN and the NPS shot AMMON and KILLED him for BASE??
How would ALL you feel??? EXCESSIVE FORCE is EXCESSIVE FORCE.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 27, 2010 - 03:31am PT
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not to play devil's advocate-
(and i am against LEOs everywhere having tasers at all)
but- does anyone know, didn't someone trying to run away from rangers after a BASE jump in YV run into the river and then drown?
maybe that history leads them to limit a young and athletic person's likelihood of running away.
sounds like excessive force, but of course there are possible circumstances that would technically make it a reasonable use of force...
so how can anyone really comment without more (and accurate) info?
i like ammon.
liking ammon does not mean the LEO did anything technically wrong.
and wrt the actual reg.s for BASE in YV, my understanding is that everyone who jumps in YV knows the deal- don't get caught. nuff said.
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Tradmedic
Ice climber
Thunder Bay, Ontario
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Aug 27, 2010 - 04:02am PT
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Ammon, you're my hero!
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wallguy
Big Wall climber
Utah
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Aug 27, 2010 - 04:41am PT
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It most have been Lober. That guy is a d*#k!
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Aug 27, 2010 - 07:57am PT
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Yikes! :( Sorry Ammon for such a horrible experience. I don't understand this level of violence when all you are risking is your own life. It completely lacks proper reasoning.
AFS
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