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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 21, 2010 - 06:35pm PT
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Ken-
Nice post up page, from Harper.
wrt lowest, you are being played.
she is (and has been for all time) a self righteous bigot, and the worst kind, the kind that argues and believes they are not. give me an open bigot over one of these "i'm an independent, screw right and left, i do my own research" bigots. no effort at conversation or education will ever change it, you are pissing into a headwind, just walk away, it feeds on your interest, seriously...
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 21, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
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The Money Shot: The best shot available from a photo shoot that will sell and make the photographer money.
The right is using this Mosque issue as a fear and smear campaign to stir hatred and get votes. It is a dangerous precedent.
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Gene
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion, ... Sen. Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else.
If it's good for Mecca...
Why not Tribeca?
Freedom of religion without the ability to build and practice where legal (in this case under NYC zoning) equals something less than freedom.
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Gene
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
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I don't think anyone questions the legality of it - just the propriety.
Then this issue should be resolved by Miss Manners and not by human rights or the Constitution? What does this country stand for anyway?
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Gene
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 07:43pm PT
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Once built there will be tributes to Muslims of one sort or another and I would offer even odds that somehow - amidst these tributes - the 9/11 terrorists will be recognized favorably in some way. Maybe not directly but somehow it will come through.
I see. Your arguement is based upon the potential for someone saying something. And it would be better for that someone to potentially say something somewhere else. Got it! Thanks for clarifying.
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Gene
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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You are quite welcome. I say it will be there. You say it won't (well, actually you don't say one way or another). We shall just have to wait to see who is correct.
I hope Cordoba gets built.
I have no use for bigots.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
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Right now- this instant and for the last 9 years the thing that makes the anti-western (and it's not just America) terrorists happy is that smoking crater left behind and the subsequent instability of our economy. That is what gives them hard-ons. Oh, and the 72 virgins they think they're going to get.
To put a mosque/community center/icon to religious freedom anywhere near "ground zero" is a slap in their collective faces- showing that our philosophical underpinnings are still strong and the insane acts of some well-financed hate mongers will not change that, no matter what.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 21, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
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I didn't see Gene call anyone a bigot. He merely said he doesn't have any use for them.
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Gene
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2010 - 08:59pm PT
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To put a mosque/community center/icon to religious freedom anywhere near "ground zero" is a slap in their collective faces- showing that our philosophical underpinnings are still strong and the insane acts of some well-financed hate mongers will not change that, no matter what.
Word.
The fact that so many Americans have such hateful feelings against religious expression, speech and assembly, as demonstrated by the hysteria about Islam and the Cordoba project, indicates to me that Al Qaeda succeeded in separating mainstream Islam from nut case Islam.
America. You have been trolled!
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Jim E
climber
away
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Aug 21, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
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Crimpie is on a mission... I think.
I like it.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 21, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
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Leb, the mad blue bird, good one.
A mosque, catholic church and christian center have been in that neighborhood since before the WTC was built. You can not see ground zero from the building. It is in a neighborhood that desperately needs rehabilitation. It is being built by Americans.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
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America. You have been trolled! The current fuss about the proposed centre in New York is a small example of that; the grotesque and clumsy over-reaction to the terrorist attacks of 2001 set the stage. The fanatics in their caves could never have hoped to provoke the response they got.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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America. You have been trolled!
Yep, if we ostracize mainstream Muslims then we give the nutcases exactly what they want. They want mainstream Muslims to feel rejected by America, so that they can woo more of them into becoming radicals. They will point to America's hatred and say.."see, we told you so". And some young impressionable Muslim will believe them instead of the reasonable Imam who was trying to combat the radicals.
Good job America, for giving the radicals exactly what they want.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:29pm PT
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leb
you stupid bitch. post up he points you have made here in one summary....
while you do so, you will find you are a stupid bitch..
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
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My brother was in NYC recently and reports that when he cabbed past the Ground Zero site on the way to a nearby meeting - that what he most noticed about the sacred place was the profusion of construction worker Porta-Potties that inhabit the grounds.
He didn't mention what religion they represented.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:44pm PT
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Holy sacred san-o-let.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern American English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation and religion."
A bigoted statement would be something like LEB said:
"Islam as a religion supports jihads and the like in the name of its religious tenets. It supports Sharia law. Mainstream Muslims are not terrorists, for sure, but they defacto support a religion and belief system which advocates that."
A non-bigoted statement might say:
Islam as a religion contains advocates of jihads and the like in the name of its religious tenents. Some Muslims support Sharia law. Mainstream Muslims are not terrorists, for sure, but they support a religion that contains those elements.
Another example:
"They really don't crucify the terrorists with loud and angry public outcry the way we do when one of our people does something wrong. They don't seem to denounce "their own" with the same degree of passion with which we do. That is why is often comes across as insincere or with an element of crocodile tears"
When you understand that the "they" being referred to are Americans of Islamic faith, LEB is dividing people on the basis of religion, and nothing else, although she vehemently denies orienting in terms of religion.
So lets eliminate the religion. I do a search on LEB. I find NOTHING that she has posted anywhere, at any time, crucifying the terrorists with loud and angry public outcries. I see nothing she has ever posted anywhere, crucifying Irish terrorists, Japanese terrorists, White Power terrorists, anti-Gay terrorists, child abusers, women who've killed their children. (She's a woman, a member of her group kills children....silence from LEB....sounds like she advocates that this be used in her next performance review)
So, "we" should interpret that as support for all those causes? That any comments to the contrary should be considered "insincere" or "crocodile tears?"
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 21, 2010 - 11:47pm PT
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LEB says
"I disagree strongly with the tenants of Islam but I do not treat Muslims badly."
When you take a demonstrable man of peace, who has spent his life trying to fight the fundamentalists....and you refer to him as a terrorist, you are treating a muslim badly. Worse, as he is a symbol of moderate muslims that are opposed to all that you dislike about the religion, and is an important weapon of US foreign policy.
So you are not just treating muslims badly, you are treating all Americans badly, as you are working against our safety and interests.
Oh, and I didn't call you a bigot. I simply posted a definition. If you think that definition fits you, well, that's your interpretation, Grasshopper, not my statement of fact.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Aug 22, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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LEB said Many times I have also said that although I like her very much, I do not feel running her as a presidential candidate would be a good idea.
Do you make this stuff up as you go along? The fact that I like her in no way translates to agreement with her views on everything nor support for her as a presidential candidate.
Calm down, LEB. Not everyone has your burnt out ED nurse hair trigger. You posted at least once in the Fall of 2008 that you hoped that McCain would win so that Palin could then be President since McCain was such a snooze.
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