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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Fight Club = original last pitch of Mayday.
I have fond memories of gingerly stepping onto the Big Bro in the flare while solo aiding that thing in the 90s.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Shart in the dark but does anyone want to let me read their copy of Alpinist, so i can catch up of the myths and the mayhem? I'll trade a couple cups of coffee. :)
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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Oh, and, full disclosure - I'm not sure if I ever was part of an FFA where the name was changed. I might have been. But I don't recall our gang changing route names after FFAs as a regular practice.
Lol.. We've been down this road a few times Tami! ;) Does "Mad Dog and Englishman" ring a bell? ;) I know you weren't involved with "The Shadow" but that seemed to set a precedent as well. Of course, not all names are victims, "Cobra Crack" being one example. It seems to depend on the ffa'ist.
Nice pic Andy, love that 75-200mm.
Ryan- Yup, the Barley slab route next to mcm.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Tami YOu old goose you!
What about routes that have a free name and an Aid name such as 'Strange Brew' for example, an easier finish to cannabis wall that deviates around the aid crux of Sutton and Burtons 'BreakfastRun'. When Climbed free it is know as 'Midnight Run'.
I think in this case it was givin both names by Andrew Boyd(?), not change by someone else.
it would seem pretty arrogant to have the "I freed it I deserve to change the name" attitude.
But dubbing it with a free name kinda makes its more clear what style you climbed it or aspire to climb it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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feel free to disagree with me but don't call me names.
Bird-doo head! Toilet Face!!!
And for what it's worth, a climber who frees a formerly aided line and wants to change the name has pretty much zero chance to do so unless the guidebook writer agrees. There's a very strong old-boy-network thing involved here.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
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Bring it to the party this weekend Tami! ;)
Isn't the renaming thing, a Yosemite free route tradition as well?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
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Yup. Perry confirmed for Saturday night.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Mad Englishman and Dog story's old news...
We want the dirt behind 'Mad Nerd and Poodle'
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Fight Club is just one pitch of Mayday though (the last), although going by the topo in the Culbert guide it's actually more like two original pitches. Also Mayday extended an earlier one pitch climb called Compression Crack. So where to draw the line? Should the Jardine Traverse just be called "The Nose pitch 12" or whatever?
Should we still be calling Beers are Not Enough "Petrifying Wall" ?
What's up with this gondola-led rebranding of White Rock as Ultraviolet Cliff?
What about retroactive renaming of one's own routes?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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I agree with it particularly with regards to FFAs. While some are redpointed on sight, others are projects. So are there degrees to FFAs ? Yes I think there are. So now when buddy#1 does the worked-over-time version of the FFA and renames the route, does buddy#2 come along, redpoint it and change the name too because it's now an arguably different ascent?
Tami,
This is interesting. What are your thoughts when there is an established free route, say 4 pitches long, that is awesome. Someone adds more ok pitches (overlapping other esoteric routes in the process) & renames the whole thing even though the crux pitch was already established- free.
I seem to remember this happening to a route you were in on the FFA of.
Renaming seems to be more of an ego/marketing ploy in a lot of modern day situations around here, people want to be known for their efforts. This isn't always a bad thing since I guess it gets ppl on the routes but it is kinda weird in a way.
I guess I renamed my dog when I adopted her......
I like how some recently resurrected routes that have been freed kept their name: liquid gold, bullethead east, the terror, etc.
However in certain situations it seems appropriate to rename a route or certain pitches if the free line takes a major variation from the aids line or has completely different pitches. Uwall is an Interesting example since the aid line & the FFA use some different pitches but its still uwall- free. Since "the shadow" follows the original uwall line & not that of the FFA I could understand how it would be deserving of its own name as a free variation otherwise it could be confusing.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Maybe there will be a Hamish vs Hamish battle over that pitch of Uncle Bens getting renamed The Golden Throat Charmer
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MH2
climber
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Well done, cultureshock/Luke. Great climbs and pics. I really like the moment captured at the crux of New Life with Alix looking like a 5'6" person would after a long reach, and the tree patiently growing back. Good perspective on the enduro-corner of The Calling, too.
edit:
Yes, for the purist the chains come before the corner ends. But they came just in time for us.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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That Calling dihedral is the best! Way to get on it Cultureshock! Isn't Astro Ledge scary as shiiite to cross?!!! I totally wigged out on it before.
Luke, Mad Nerd and Poodle is a way cooler name than the one we called it. Simian Response is pretty much the worst name ever.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Yeah Luke(Cultureshock)! Rad TR man, super good to meet you. Hopefully we'll see u up this way again soon. Makin' the loc's look like a buncha weenies here, way to get after it.
Tami, the example I used is the Milk rd. no disrespect to Jeremy F cuz I think he does a lot of great work for the community & I'm not trying to discount his massive efforts in any way. Who knows Maybe he'll even chime in. I think its relevant to what we are talking about though & like any good junior troll in training it seemed worth mentioning. I just thought it was Interesting how it was renamed & is now listed as an entire route top 100, instead of milk run- the classic & milk rd, the upper half or extension. Maybe u guys talked about it or something & I am hardly qualified to say, just bein a weenie smokin bowls in the backyard. I would think though that when routes are renamed & reclaimed & extended & straightened out & freed that some of the historical context has the potential to be blurred. Sometimes this could be a good thing i guess. One of my favorite things about climbing is the historical context.
Relics route is a similar scenario it seems. I think simian response is a cool name Relic, whatever the hell it means.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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I don't think that we have had any discussion about the ethics of renaming routes on this thread. Personally I think that it is totally lame, and seems to be more of a Squamish "thing". Other than changing the "East Face of Washinton Column" to "Astroman", I am not aware of any other name changes in Yos, although there are probably some. The EFWC was named at a time when there were very few routes on each cliff [2 or 3 on El Cap], and they were named as geographic features rather than separate lines. It made sense to later change those names [very few] to something with a more specific identity. It is worth noting that, as far as I know, none of the routes which have been freed on EC have been renamed. The FFAists are all bigger than that, and don't need the ego trip.
If the person who makes the FFA feels entitled to make a name change, how about the person who makes the first roped solo? and the first free solo? and.........
Perhaps we should make renaming a timed event, like speed records on the Nose. Then whichever party sets a new record gets to change the name. As for all of these minor variations which now seem to require a new name, the Brits have a good solution. They just refer to them as variation starts/ finishes or direct starts/finishes.
Did I mention that I think renaming is lame, lame, lame?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Perfidious trustafarian lol
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MH2
climber
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I like the Bruce Kay point of view. He is Edward Abbey as in, "Abbey considers John McPhee 'a first rate reporter, but too mild, too nice, too cautious -- no point of view.'"
Not saying HM is John Mcphee AT ALL. I like the HM view on renaming routes and it is not too mild.
I am just putting together the parallel universe history of Squamish provided by BK.
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