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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Oct 25, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
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One of the best free FAs I was involved in was the first known ascent of Valiant Flail To No Avail at the Riverside Quarry. We thought it to be 12a in the days before sticky rubber. It had all of one bolt, because that was all we could stand long enough to place! Now it's something like 11b ... with 5 bolts. Those who do it now are merely doing a mid-grade sport route. There's enough ego in me to be bummed that no one doing it now should even care who put up just another sport route. And who, having repeated it now, would have any major sense of accomplishment. That's the dark side of retro-bolting.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 25, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
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That's the dark side of retro-bolting.
Exactly!
It takes a route requiring commitment and adventure and converts it to an escalator.
Five bolts! I'm surprised nobody thought to bolt a set of stairs there instead; that would have made the route MUCH more "accessible!"
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Oct 26, 2015 - 01:47am PT
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For all of Woot Boy's responses, the defiling of the Great Slab Route has yet to be addressed directly. If Eric could clearly annunciate how such a complete change in character of a route is logical in his head it would be greatly appreciated. Despite his terminal politeness, there is no escaping that 2 crux pitches were bypassed by a bolt ladder, and a stain of bolts were left along a mostly bolt free section of rock. I see no justification, and fear for other routes.
Way back before my time Jardine's name was mud for chipping the travere on the nose. The community judgement went a long way towards keeping other routes from getting similar "upgrades", and I hope the strong response here will help other's think twice before copying Sloan's aberrant behavior.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Oct 26, 2015 - 04:36am PT
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And, here it is in plain english fellas: If you've climbed a route several times, have talked to other climbers on the route while climbing it, and have decided that something regarding fixed gear needs to change, or that an added bolt may be necessary in a certain place - go for it and put that new bolt in. If you did your homework, like I have on most of the bolts I"ve added, folks will find your additions worthy.
What " homework " was exactly done to add bolts to the Great Slab Route?
What " homework " was exactly done to add bolts(chicken) to existing climbs to make it more easier for " shorter people "
It's aid climbing which is cheating to begin with. And I already know you won't answer any of the above 2 questions.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 26, 2015 - 05:53am PT
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that if when you are there on the mountain you believe that the bolts are not in the best place or disadvantage folks between 5'7" and 5'10"(most routes were bolted for folks 5' 10" and above. I've been trying to get this down to 5' 7". That still means that many shorter climbers have to use cheater sticks to reach bolts),
What are the ADA standards for bolt placement?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 26, 2015 - 07:21am PT
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Woot!
LOL!
Woot Woot!
Great Slab Woot?
Coots!
LOL!
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RyanD
climber
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Oct 26, 2015 - 07:40am PT
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Prepare for text walls.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 26, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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Wow, has anyone climbed Ten Days After since this thread started? lol, could've had a bunch of educated opinions about the op-ed by now.
I attempted it 2006.. winter send rope solo.. bailed due to huge snow storm
would love to get up the Ten days after route maybe sometime in the future
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 26, 2015 - 08:44am PT
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... by all means change the spacing or location.
Bad advice, and the reason so many people are fuming at what's going on here.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Oct 26, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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Uncalled for RyanD. This is a serious thread and I think we as a community are on the brink of solving this crisis.
Oh sh#t, just checked the OP and first page, looks like we are back to square 1.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 26, 2015 - 10:25am PT
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Richard Jenkins/Madbolter1
You just can't get it right, can you?
You're told repeatedly. All you have to do is copy/paste, if you can't remember. But you just can't get it right.
You don't realize HOW thoroughly it destroys your credibility regarding "homework" when you continually can't even get a name right... when that name is HANDED to you on a silver platter. So, here it is again: Richard JENSEN. There is no "Jenkins" anywhere in the mix.
Your behavior on this thread is interesting.
Not even CLOSE to as interesting as your behavior. Wowwwww
Aren't you and Mark the first team to up the belay bolt standard on El Cap to 1/2" on your Ring of Fire route in 1996?
Yup, we were forward-looking back then.
That doesn't justify YOUR retro-bolting. So, STOP conflating your (at times) legitimate RE-bolting with your (NOT legitimate) RETRO-bolting!
Your comments about me not possibly being able to tell if the bolts on the Sea of Dreams were yours or not is comical
What's really comical is your insistence on the claim that we put in ANY bolts on the Sea. I'll say again: Ask Barbella and Brand what they observed, since they were side-by-side with us and about 100 feet away during our entire ascent. We did not add ANY bolts to the Sea.
I interviewed Mark Smith, recorded the interview no less, where we talked about that.
Awesome! So you can PRODUCE that recording. Let us ALL hear where Mark says that we added bolts on the Sea. You have NO such thing, and you WON'T produce it for us to hear.
Remember I lived/worked in Wawona for three years so I saw all of your and Mark's routes there(where they used the same homemade aluminum hangers).
You "saw all of [our] routes there?" LOL... ROFL!
So, the mere fact that you worked at Wawona MEANS that you saw all of our routes?
Seriously... what planet are you from. On EARTH, being in the same region does not equate with CLIMBING all of the routes in the region.
Did you do Bird in Flight? No aluminum hangers on that one.
I could mention others as well. We used some aluminum hangers, but mostly manufactured.
Relevancy? NONE, other than to point out, yet again, that you live in a pretty strange fantasy world, which you perpetually use to justify your systematic behaviors that MOST of the climbing community decries!
Now I realize that probably YOU are the one who retro-bolted the initial pitches of Bird in Flight. You see, WE did those 5.9 leads VERY run-out, using a couple of bolts and the odd trad-placement per pitch. The crux pitches are 5.11+ and also run-out. So, if you can't basically free-solo 5.9 onsight, you have NO business on the crux pitches.
But we went up there years later and looked up to see a whole CROP of bolts on those pitches, added later by "somebody" else... DUMBING down our route.
You? You wanna OWN that?
To answer your comment directly that NNL is no where near WOS - of course it's not, silly, my buddy and I fixed the entire great slab to Timbukktu when we were replacing the bolts on NNL(had a party with 8 of us, a campfire, and gin and tonics on Timbuktu!), so at the bottom we just rapped East and down the first pitches WOS.
So, you would have had to rap PRETTY EAST to catch any pitches of WoS. LOL
Whatever. Your point?
Speaking of Wawona Dome. Anyone climbed up there? There are some awesome(modern) sport routes.
There's also some awesome, run-out (or they WERE) NON-sport routes!
What you REFUSE to "get," ES is that MOST people in the climbing community do NOT agree that it's okay to "modify" huge swaths of EXISTING routes to suit your particular "comfortizing," pussifying agenda.
Your behavior in RETRO-bolting is unacceptable, non-respectable, and has NOTHING to "woot" about it.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Oct 26, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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OMG madbolter
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Oct 26, 2015 - 11:11am PT
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You just can't get it right, can you? Interesting use of a statement followed by a confirmation question.
You're told repeatedly. All you have to do is copy/paste, if you can't remember. As you can clearly see, I have mastered the copy/paste method. We did learn this difficult method in elementary school.
But you just can't get it right. I'm beginning to think he just can't get it right.
You don't realize HOW thoroughly it destroys your credibility regarding "homework" when you continually can't even get a name right... when that name is HANDED to you on a silver platter. So, here it is again: Richard JENSEN. There is no "Jenkins" anywhere in the mix. Here I'm loving Mr. Jenkins use of ALL capital words. I'm starting to think if Eric Slone would just get his name right, maybe they could be friends.
Not even CLOSE to as interesting as your behavior. Wowwwww Notice the emphasis on the word wow, but failed to CAPITALIZE the word.
Yup, we were forward-looking back then.That doesn't justify YOUR retro-bolting. So, STOP conflating your (at times) legitimate RE-bolting with your (NOT legitimate) RETRO-bolting! The exclamation mark really strikes home on this one. Still think the caps are VERY helpful in emphasizing, but the ! is the cherry on top.
What's really comical is your insistence on the claim that we put in ANY bolts on the Sea. I'll say again: Ask Barbella and Brand what they observed, since they were side-by-side with us and about 100 feet away during our entire ascent. We did not add ANY bolts to the Sea. Pretty strong counter here and this Slone guy might have problems understanding Richard, cause he sure has to keep telling him things.
Awesome! So you can PRODUCE that recording. Let us ALL hear where Mark says that we added bolts on the Sea. You have NO such thing, and you WON'T produce it for us to hear. This is a real make or break moment for me.
You "saw all of [our] routes there?" LOL... ROFL!
So, the mere fact that you worked at Wawona MEANS that you saw all of our routes?
Seriously... what planet are you from. On EARTH, being in the same region does not equate with CLIMBING all of the routes in the region.
Did you do Bird in Flight? No aluminum hangers on that one.
I could mention others as well. We used some aluminum hangers, but mostly manufactured.
Relevancy? NONE, other than to point out, yet again, that you live in a pretty strange fantasy world, which you perpetually use to justify your systematic behaviors that MOST of the climbing community decries!
Now I realize that probably YOU are the one who retro-bolted the initial pitches of Bird in Flight. You see, WE did those 5.9 leads VERY run-out, using a couple of bolts and the odd trad-placement per pitch. The crux pitches are 5.11+ and also run-out. So, if you can't basically free-solo 5.9 onsight, you have NO business on the crux pitches.
But we went up there years later and looked up to see a whole CROP of bolts on those pitches, added later by "somebody" else... DUMBING down our route.
You? You wanna OWN that? Way too much for me to read, so no comment.
So, you would have had to rap PRETTY EAST to catch any pitches of WoS. LOL
Whatever. Your point? Oh sh#t, we have a LOL and a whatever!
There's also some awesome, run-out (or they WERE) NON-sport routes!
What you REFUSE to "get," ES is that MOST people in the climbing community do NOT agree that it's okay to "modify" huge swaths of EXISTING routes to suit your particular "comfortizing," pussifying agenda.
Your behavior in RETRO-bolting is unacceptable, non-respectable, and has NOTHING to "woot" about it. Woot! This was my first total quotation breakdown and I can see the thrill. It's kinda like sport climbing cause anyone can do it if they rehearse enough.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 26, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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When madbolter drops so far out of character and decorum as to call you a pussy you've really had to go out of your way to earn that appellation.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 26, 2015 - 11:36am PT
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I'd like to see folks talk better to each other, treat each other better. On this forum. I remember when the wankers on this forum all but repeatedly verbally raped Doug Robinson (who is a top notch human being and has been called the father of clean climbing) for going up and helping Sean whatshisname on 1/2 domes growing up route simply because they rapped in to find the top of the route and locate the best bolt placements. That embarrassing bullshit went for over 2000 angry vitriolic unnecessarily mean-spirited posts over and over and over. So I suspect that this thread will unfortunately drone on for close to that.
Edit: Burch- LOL
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Oct 26, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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Damn, I wish Coz was still posting here.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 26, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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Hey Jammer, Have you ever posted one climbing related topic or photo?
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Oct 26, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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"When madbolter drops so far out of character and decorum as to call you a pussy you've really had to go out of your way to earn that appellation.
It was either that or another misguided reference to the Founding Fathers.
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