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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 30, 2019 - 09:28am PT
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Choose 'No', Joe.
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sempervirens
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 10:22am PT
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Yet another reason why another old, rich white guy is not the best choice to go up against Trump in 2020 (although I do think he'd handle Trump pretty well in debates).
Yeah, and those people are probably old, white, rich people, too.
Do you guys think these comments make sense? Is it ethical or acceptable to judge a person or a candidate based on their race or age? Can you see the blatant flaw in that reasoning?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2019 - 10:29am PT
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Do you guys think these comments make sense
yes, because American society is racist and misogynous
if you want your candidate to win you don't want to lose votes for those reasons
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sempervirens
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 10:37am PT
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Hmmm.
Norton, if Ben Carson runs against Bernie Sanders then, if your reasoning makes sense you'd vote for Carson. Is that your position??
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2019 - 10:47am PT
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Hi semper, no that is not the reasoning
try again?
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sempervirens
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 11:06am PT
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Norton, do you see the flaw in the comments I quoted? The comments do make judgement based on race. If they made sense, then what will happen if the neo-cons choose a candidate like Carson, or Marco Rubio, Sara Palin, etc?
I understand if your saying what you predict will happen if a certain color person is running. But I'm taking issue with deciding who will run based on their color. "American society is racist.." is a broad generalization. So that comment in itself is an obvious problem. Racism exists, yes, no argument there. Let's not support it.
I'm supporting choosing the next candidate(s) by examining their policy positions, voting records, etc. rather than their race. Concentrating on race is a form of racism. Won't that simply lead to more racism, especially if anyone defends the practice.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 30, 2019 - 01:09pm PT
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Semper, those comments are certainly an over-simplification, but there is a reason why it fits. Politics on both sides is too often represented by establishment politicians that wind up getting the nod front their Party largely because they’ve done their time, and they are ‘due’. And it is hard to deny the pattern they represent of being older, white, male and moneyed.
Biden is the latest version of that. We don’t need more of the same.
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sempervirens
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 01:36pm PT
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Apogee, I don't deny the pattern. Nor do I support Biden. I deny that Biden is a poor choice because of his skin color and age. I brought it to attention for two reasons.
1. making racists judgements supports racism and will likely bring more racism. That's just my opinion, but it's reasonable and most of us do oppose racism.
2. The neo-cons are not stupid. If and when enough voters are not motivated by racism the neo-cons can simply choose a person of color who will do their bidding. In effect they can say, "the libs are right we must put more people of color in power". They elect a Marco Rubio or a crazy like Sara Palin and the country will still be a long way from positive change. Rubio or Palin (or the likes of them) are unlikely to support: single payer health care, end of citizens united, banning private prisons, banking regulation reform, end to gerrymandering, etc. The self-identifying liberals who make anti-white racist comments are helping the neo-cons. The neo-cons expose the hypocrisy, making the libs look stupid and hippocritcal. The dumb KKK-types in US use the anti-white comments as evidence to show the libs are trying to replace white people. Which is nonsense, but nonsense motivates dumb KKK-types. So liberals (progressives/leftists/ anti-trumpers, for lack of a better term) should not use these over-simplifications in political discussions. Over simplifications are simple-minded and, IMO, will backfire.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 30, 2019 - 01:43pm PT
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For clarity, I don’t consider using the term ‘white’ in this context to be pejorative- simply stating a reality that has a significant influence on the way voters see a potential candidate.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 02:53pm PT
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Norton opined,
yes, because American society is racist and misogynous
Yes sir! You are surely racist and misogynous...
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Mar 30, 2019 - 02:57pm PT
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Yes sir! You are surely racist and misogynous...
It gets better. Norton still holds the record of being the only person on the taco to post a racist picture of President Obama and calling him the N-word.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 30, 2019 - 03:02pm PT
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Nice try. I recall that, and Norton was quoting others, exposing the racism.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 30, 2019 - 03:07pm PT
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After the chaos of Trump, I think many Americans wish for a steady hand, from someone with knowledge and experience with complex political situations. They also desire someone who is gracious, has humor (not at someones' expense), and who knows how to say and do the right thing when things go wrong.
Despite Biden's failings, he probably addresses these large issues far better than anyone else running, on either side.
I don't get the sense that the populace is willing to take another chance on change for change sake.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
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Nóřton isn't a racist, a brainwashed politard fool, but not a racist ever.
Some of you are insane projectionists that see sh!t that's not really there ....
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 30, 2019 - 03:16pm PT
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For clarity, I don’t consider using the term ‘white’ in this context to be pejorative-
Not a pejorative.
Just a negative characteristic.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 30, 2019 - 04:01pm PT
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Well, from the perspective of a candidate whose loss is confirmed to have been significantly influenced by the fact they were white, yes, I suppose that’s a negative characteristic.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 30, 2019 - 04:16pm PT
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single payer health care, end of citizens united, banning private prisons, banking regulation reform, end to gerrymandering, etc.
Can you say that here?
-nigahindewoodpile
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