Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
I literally spelled it out in the post before yours? You stroking out or something?
I think you skipped over a few things. You stated as fact that Afghanistan has a "huge" number of weapons in private hands. Refer to my post above. You mention Iraq, no one has a clue what is going on there vis a vis guns. Except it looks like the bad guys have them and the Christians don't.
You chose some weak examples to support your argument that dictatorships can enforce their will over well armed populace. In such a situation the dictator's first goal is to disarm the people. Every time.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
Talk to anyone who has actually been to Afghanistan. Outside the cities at the very least, automatic weapons are literally everywhere. Iraq is similar. Both have armed militias as well rolling around "protecting freedom"....for their particular group. And disarm those who disagree with you, sure. But plenty of despots are supported by armed paramilitary groups or militias all over the world. You don't become a dictator by forcing your will over 100% of the population, you have groups that support you and you make sure they are well taken care of. Also, in Escopeta's scenario the assumption is that Trump would be out freely wandering around where someone could should at him as opposed to traveling between his heavily fortified palaces like most dictators in embattled countries.
All that aside, who needs any of it? One does not need to be a dictator in America to become absurdly wealthy. I don't recall any armed opposition stopping the government from warrantless wire taps or systematic torture. No militia has stopped the government from overpolicing communities of color. The Freedom Force didn't show up to stop Freddie Gray from having his neck broken or Eric Garner from being choked to death. Armed opposition to the government is far more likely to discredit your cause than enable it.
Tyrany has existed in this country since its inception and personal gun ownership has not helped. Black people beginning to open carry is what spurned Reagan's gun laws as previously discussed. Now gun ownership for "personal protection" is driven by the perception of black on white crime.
I don't oppose a regime of personal gun ownership but this idea that people own guns because tyranny is just fanciful self engrandizing garbage. If the government is coming to get you and your only defense is your gun, you already lost and you're already dead. You just don't know it yet.
You all keep imagining yourselves in this scenario as the oppressed, completely ignoring the fact that we are the oppressors.
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
Also, in Escopeta's scenario the assumption is that Trump would be out freely wandering around where someone could should at him as opposed to traveling between his heavily fortified palaces like most dictators in embattled countries.
As suspected, you - like many others here as evidence by their comments, assume that gun owners in United States are all buck toothed rednecks running around with deer rifles.
A dictator that lives in a cave doesn't keep power long. And one that comes up for air in my example, doesn't live.
The crux of the issue is that the US government doesn't have to come for people's guns. They merely need to make it a felony to own one which turns law-abiding citizens into instant-criminals. And it removes that pesky thing about the military following unlawful orders...
But hey let's continue to pass gun control regulations that allow our police and government to continue to selectively enforce those laws on whatever group, class segment, race or creed they wish.
Its so amazing watching some of the retards on here prattle on about caring for the "little guy" and hating on the 1% when virtually all the policies you fight for do nothing more than reinforce the current status quo. Or make it worse.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
She's got to protect herself from the likes of Escopeta and Madbolter that want to hunt her down.
If Idaho realized that this beast inhabited its territory, I am certain that the state itself would hire the likes of me and Escopeta (and others) to hunt it down and put it out of its misery before it could breed and multiply.
That's not just "state's rights," that's the state doing what's right!
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
Idaho had a special Super Hunt Draw for her. I got pulled, it's in Hunt Area 51 and the only time you can pursue her is during the full moon.
If you hunt during the rut, you do so at your own risk.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
If you hunt during the rut, you do so at your own risk.
ROFL
Of course, the best way to attract it in for the shot is to smear yourself with pheromones.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
She's got a purty mouth....
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
She's for the 2nd Admendment!
Suddenly, I'm adamant that the amendment must go away. If ever there was a legitimate guilt-by-association inference, this is it.
Con-con, anyone?
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
I don't know, she could just be the secret weapon we have been looking for in the fight for the 2A.
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
Hey Esco; Don't you support PETA?
Of course! F and I go to PETA gatherings together, hand in hand....
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/science-isnt-broken/#part4
This article is a rigorously-argued example of why I say that studies and statistics are not going to be a reliable way to form such things as national gun policy. It's not just that empirical data is generally unreliable, while by contrast deductively analyzed principles are reliable. It's that statistics are indeed "damned lies," even given the "best" analysis of their "data".
The dynamic chart about Dems and Repubs and their effect on the economy is excellent.
Have fun!
|
|
johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
PETA
People eating tasty animals.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2016 - 08:42am PT
|
Escopeta posted As suspected, you - like many others here as evidence by their comments, assume that gun owners in United States are all buck toothed rednecks running around with deer rifles.
A dictator that lives in a cave doesn't keep power long. And one that comes up for air in my example, doesn't live.
Again, your hypothetical is about Donald Trump becoming a dictator. Were this to happen, it would be because the majority of people who you seem to think would be forming Freedom Squads to stop him would actually be eager supporters. Dictators are not created in a vacuum. That's why this "I stay armed to protect against tyranny" dream is such garbage. In reality it simply justifies the selling of ever more guns and the ever increasing militarization of our police.
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2016 - 09:55am PT
|
Dictators aren't grown in a vacuum and they also aren't grown in countries where there is equal gun ownership rights for all citizens.
For all he whining you people do, you certainly have a funny way of trying to help equality issues...
Still won't answer the question though. I wonder why?
Well, I mean I know why but couldn't someone just be honest about their argument and simply say they don't like guns rather than cook up all these theories about how guns don't thwart tyranny and other nonsense?
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
|
Dictators aren't grown in a vacuum and they also aren't grown in countries where there is equal gun ownership rights for all citizens.
At best a correlation without causation. Using your logic most of the industrialized world is ripe for dictatorship and yet America barely makes the top 20 on the Democracy Index. Also, what country has "equal gun ownership rights for all citizens?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Escopeta posted Well, I mean I know why but couldn't someone just be honest about their argument and simply say they don't like guns rather than cook up all these theories about how guns don't thwart tyranny and other nonsense?
Because I think guns are super cool? The craftmanship, the skill in shooting, the history. There's a lot to admire about guns. But your argument is exactly reversed. Why don't you just admit that you think guns are super cool and you want to own guns because they're cool, not because they actually provide any of the benefits you keep asserting they do without any evidence?
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
|
Well shoot, I kind of figured the whole "I like guns because they're cool, they have craftsmanship and history, plus they're fun and challenging to shoot" argument was already hashed out and accepted. I guess if that part isn't obvious to you... um... trolling here or what?
The other benefits are kind of neat too. Though I've seen arguments on this forum and elswhere (like, you know, face-to-face) that say "neat" just doesn't cut mustard in the face of murder. So, um, where do we go from here... dinner by candle light?
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
|
Hey, Escopeta, how well armed was the Polish citizenry when they kicked the Soviets out?
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
|
In 1920? A lot better at the end than when they started.
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
|
Still not answering the question. Its sad that you keep up the argument when you can't even come to grips with your own dissonance.
You know the answer as well as I do, but if you admit it your whole argument goes to hell. Its funny watching you avoid it though.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!