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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 20, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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LEB...can you please come up with a new game plan...your trolling is old and worn out.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 20, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
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Did you hear me advocate rounding up Muslims and doing malevolent things to them?
I DO hear you, LEB, and I think such assertions are repugnant. This is what they are talking about when they refer to "yelling fire in the theater".
This is simply unamerican.
"This is un-American, what we are feeling and seeing today," said Stephen Rohde of the Progressive Jewish Alliance, referring to anti-Muslim sentiment. "It must be rejected by people of reason; it must be rejected by people of faith."
In Fresno, a local talk radio station, KMJ-580 FM, on Monday broadcast what it called a "Crash Course in Islam," featuring a self-described expert who compared the Koran to Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf," and said that Islam was "a road map to world domination" and that it was not a religion "as we would define it in the West."
Ghazvini said he has repeatedly denounced extremism and terrorism. He expressed frustration over what he saw as a deliberate campaign to stereotype and tarnish American Muslims.
"They do not distinguish between a very small group of Muslim extremists, which we also fight, and the mainstream Islam and the mainstream Muslims," he said. "This is not only un-useful, it is dangerous, it will harm our country and the name of our country and it will make us fail in the war against terrorism."
God Bless America, and protect us!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 20, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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I'm curious to see where Ken lost control of his emotions. Can anyone point that out?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Aug 20, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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Yes god knows that LEB has always been above casting aspersions.
Fatty said I have a better point to raise, this Imam is worthless, he's on the death list of almost every Islamic leader. Dead man walking. There might even be another explosion at WTC, the mosque, he's no doubt on Al-Queda's list.
Shouldn't this make him a hero in your book? If he was liked by those groups you'd use at as a reason to dismiss him. Is your intolerance really that deep?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 20, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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Bluering won't answer my question from a day or so ago, so I will answer it for him.
Bluering will not condemn the entire Greek Orthodox faith, even though some members of that faith have conducted terrorist attacks on Americans. He supports their building of a church on sacred Ground Zero.
Bluering (Lois, too) will condemn the entire Muslim faith because some members of that faith have conducted terrorist attacks on Americans. He does not support their building of a mosque, or whatever it is, near Ground Zero.
Is it because Bluering hates darker hued folks? Or is he just an illogical thinker?
Bluering?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 20, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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Weird. I read it all carefully and I fail to see a loss of control over emotion. Disagreement perhaps, but no loss of emotion.
disclaimer: This post in no way indicates that I have lost control over my emotions.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 20, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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I have fundamental disagreement and a lack of accord with the basic tenants of Islam Hmm, I didn't know that Islam was a landlord. Why are you fighting with its tenants?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Aug 20, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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LEB said I have fundamental disagreement and a lack of accord with the basic tenants of Islam
Sweet. This is the part where I get to ask you what the basic tenets of Islam are that you have a fundamental disagreement with. Any takers on whether or not this question gets answered?
*edit*
Ok I'll play nice. Here are the basic tenets of Islam. Tell me which ones you have a "fundamental disagreement" with:
The 'Five Pillars' or Tenets of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:
1. Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
2. Establishment of the daily prayers;
3. Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
4. Self-purification through fasting; and
5. The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 20, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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careful DJ-
you are possibly about to see some rather broad accusations!!!
(btw- anyone wanna bet the next volley is HDDJ asking lowest if christian fundamentalists define the "fundamental tennets" of christianity?)
btw again, this is the imam (maybe this is already posted in this thread?)
http://www.ted.com/talks/imam_feisal_abdul_rauf.html
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 21, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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to quote a great American:
"...the beat goes on and I'm so wrong, the beat goes on and I'm so wrong,
I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool......"
-Frank Zappa
Cheers,
DD
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:00am PT
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LEB, I don't really want to get into your second-rate psychological evaluation skills. Let them stand on their merits.
I am not going to go digging up your hate posts, and repeat them, yet again. You can do that, and undoubtedly will.
Suffice it to say that you have yet to answer for your attacks on the allies of America in the fight against Muslim Fundamentalists, those who attacked America on 911.
You have yet to answer for trying to pull down American leaders who seek to work with the enemies of Muslim Fundamentalism.
You have yet to answer, for accusing good people, fighting for your freedom, of being your mortal enemies, when they are not.
And you keep ignoring these issues, while continuing to malign those of honor.
Pathetic.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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There you go flying off the handle again.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:12am PT
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"...Ken lost control of his emotions"
Actually I've been pretty impressed with the control Ken has managed on this thread.
I could not have conveyed as well my thoughts, nor managed to respond to the idiocy of so many of the comments I've read.
I just sit back and read and shake my head while he is able to control his emotions and make his points.
-
That Quran burning in Fl. is not only pathetic, but down right frightening...
Fundamentalism is alive and (unfortunately!) well in this country.
And some here slam the Muslims their beliefs-Sheesh what a bunch of messed up punks exist in our own country.
Cheers,
DD
...and the rain continues here in N. India/Pakistan...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:18am PT
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Imagine the fuss if one were to indulge in public bible-burning in much of the USA, or Canada for that matter. Probably constitutional and legal, although rude and unwise. You'd probably get arrested, supposedly for your own safety or to prevent a riot - although it's not you who's rioting. Thorny question.
Perhaps it would be better phrased if the scene was the destruction of a collection of the writings of all major religions, outside a public building or courthouse, with whatever licences are needed to do so.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:24am PT
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Matt, thanks for the TED link. Nice to finally hear the man, himself. A leader of peace, obviously. I also liked his biographical sketch:
In 2003, Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf founded the Cordoba Initiative, a non-partisan and international organization that works to provide innovative solutions to conflict between Muslim and Western communities. He also serves as chair of the Initiative, actively promoting and moderating dialogue between individuals and groups. What’s more, this project was not the Imam's first foray into interreligious talks. In 1997, he started the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), a group that brings American Muslims and non-Muslims together through programs in policy, current affairs and culture.
Also, Imam Rauf regularly attends the Council on Foreign Relations and the World Economic Forum (both Davos and Dead Sea) and has written three books on the topic of bringing peace to Islam's relations: Islam: A Search for Meaning; Islam: A Sacred Law; and What's Right With Islam: A New Vision for Muslims and the West. He continues to balance his mission of creating peace with his regular duties as Imam of Masjid al-Farah, a mosque twelve blocks from Ground Zero in New York City, that he has led for 25 years.
===
I was quite struck by the note about the Counsel on Foreign Relations, which some people feel (I'm not one) is the actual ruling junta of this country. However, I do believe that one does not get to participate in that, unless one is considered an important and rational contributor.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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Blue, LEB?
Neither of you have responded to the issue of the gravely troubling association of Grover Norquist with Islam. Inasmuch as this fellow is a "kingmaker" in the party, is this not very very concerning?
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 21, 2010 - 03:15am PT
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Ken M, you got the jackpot post 777. May you be showered with coin.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 21, 2010 - 09:58am PT
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I have gone back several hundred posts and don't see where Ken has discussed Christianity, let alone LEB and Christianity. Maybe it's early in the thread?
Can someone point this out to me please? Wish we had a better search function here because my internal one is failing me. :)
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 21, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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LEB...can you accept the fact that there is no mosque at "ground zero"?
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