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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Pretty grusome tragedy for sure. I heard there was a large chunk of rock that dislodged from the sword pitch an hour before she fell, an unrelated occurance of course. It just missed climbers below.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Bump!
What is this one. Tell me & I'll show another. Should be easy.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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My condolences to the family of the victim. That's sad news.
Just got back from a first visit to Squamish. It's an interesting town. The rock is great. The views from the top are fantastic. Mt. Garibaldi beckons like a siren.
We hiked to the top of the second summit. There are definitely places where you could get into big trouble.
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MH2
climber
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Looks like Agonal, Ryan.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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I thought that would be easy for u guys!
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Aug 16, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
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I was going to put this on the Gondola thread, but it seems to have vanished...
This was written by Frank Baumann and is reposted with his permission. I'm not trying to stir up any old wasp nests that may have been generated in the Gondola thread; it's for info only.
Dave Southam, the District Manager at the Squamish office of the Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations has informed me that the public road across Crown Land from the Stawamus River into the Shannon Creek watershed will be gated at a point behind the Stawamus Chief where the road was blocked for many years by rockfall. You will be able to walk or bike from there to the Mt. Habrich, Sky Pilot, Petgill Lake, and Goat Ridge areas- but you won't be able to drive a vehicle up there as was the case for many, many years.
Dave also confirmed that this is being done to help preserve the commercial interests of the Sea to Sky Gondola gang, who don't want the public to be able to just drive up there and use their facilities at the top station of the gondola.
I believe the Sea to Sky Gondola gang should not be allowed to restrict access to a public road and Crown Land. If they want to protect their commercial interests, they should do what most other private companies are required to do: erect a fence and place signs along the boundary of their tenure area to keep non-paying people out.
If you feel, as I do, that this move to restrict access to Crown Land sets a dangerous precedent, especially given the long term historic use of this beautiful Alpine watershed by mountaineers and hikers, then take a moment to express your concerns to Dave at the following address:
Dave Southam, District Manager, Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Sea to Sky District Suite 101-42000 Loggers Lane Squamish BC V8B 0H3
Telephone: 604 898-2100 Facsimile: 604 898-2191 E-Mail: Forests.SquamishDistrictOffice@gov.bc.ca
You might also want to send a copy of your letter to the Minister responsible at the following address:
The Honourable Steve Thomson PO Box 9049 STN PROV GOVT VICTORIA, BC V8W 9E2
Telephone: 250 387-6240 Fax: 250 387-1040 Email: FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca
Of course, it's a lost cause, and exactly what I and others predicted.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Aug 16, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
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Thanks Tricouni. I'm not too surprised by this either.
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Aug 16, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
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Tough call on that one, I was under the impression that after the kids rolled off that cliff the forest folks put the boulder blockade up to stop people from going up in cars. When I asked Jayson Faulkner about it he said that at worse the gate would be at the old boulder blockade but with a parking lot...at best it would be at or near the memorial.
So in that sense we never had access and we were never going to...furthermore for quite a while they gated the road right at the turn off for Mamquam to stop people from going up the Stawamus...so its really tough to buy Franks argument even if I agree that we should be able to drive to the Habrich trail head as we could many years before.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Aug 16, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
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So are you saying that it's ok for forestry to allow a private company exclusive access to what was a public road??
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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Agreed Tami. There should be a fence for their tenure, but the road should remain open.
Nice pics Ryan! Thanks for all your contributions here lately man. Visions of places I dream to hang. Truly inspirational.
Thanks to everyone else who contributes here as well. This thread is amazing because of the people who choose to hang here.
My condolences to friends and family of the unfortunate hiker. Quite an unfortunate tragedy.
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MH2
climber
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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Back at you, Big Mike. This thread has done wonders in giving Squamish a presence on Supertopo.
Could traffic on that road really be much of a threat to the commercial interests of the gondola operation? Would the washrooms be over-used? It seems to me that only a very marginal business would be hurt by people arriving up there by car rather than gondola.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
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Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
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NBD on the gated road, it'll only be like that for a year until they go out of biz & we get to bail them out :-)
Thanks Mike, hope ur doin good buddy! Call me soon if ur down.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
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Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?
Yes, during active logging, for safety and to protect the expensive logging equipment from getting shot up. Usually, after they finish, the gates are remomved. (There have been exceptions.)
In this case, if it's too unsafe for the public to drive up, it's probably too unsafe for the gondola workers. The solution then is to fix the road, make it safe, and allow everyone up.
It was the company that chose the landing spot, not forestry. I have no doubt that they chose that spot so that they could drive to the top.
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Aug 17, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Ok this sounds like a good issue for the Access society. Access to the Anderson River Peaks always involved obtaining the key from Cattermole Logging, the same for Mt Urquhart.
Get busy folks, and contact John Brody ,jbrodie@access-society.ca or Dave Jones djones@access-society.ca ( no not Davy the old Squamish slab climber)
If you really want access, people need to get involved now and start negotiations, perhaps a key available for CASBC members, with a blanket liability waiver.
I am now the CASBC area rep for the interior and we have our own hornets nest of brewing access issues, my approach is to be proactive on potential issues, don't wait until the gate is up and FLNR has established a management plan.
FLNR district land managers understand politics and financial clout, there are Squamish climbers financial impact studies to make local climbers credible stakeholders and there is also evidence of historical land use. If the area is designate a Wilderness Management Area, (doubtful but possible) the FLNR manager has unlimited powers under the Parks Act to restrict access and designate land use.
Anders isnt around to carry the ball on this one , its time for the old school crowd and the new kids to step up and get involved. There is enough talent on this forum to get her done.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Aug 17, 2013 - 11:15am PT
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Basically, a logging road isn't a maintained public road, and a gate on a logging road doesn't prevent access to Crown land, as you can still walk or bike it.
That said, gates mostly go in to protect equipment from the yahoo brigade, and nowadays a gate doesn't do much to restrict quads and dirt bikes who usually build trail around an obstacle within 15 minutes of it going up.
So to avoid that you pretty much have to put a gate where there's a cliff in the cutslope and a big drop off below... or in the middle of a bridge
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Aug 17, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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Who paid for the construction of the road in question in the first place? Was it us? The faithful old taxpayers? I think I remember reading that was the case on the old gondy thread. What right would we have to access it? Same right we have to protect class A provincial parks so future generations can enjoy them in their natural state for perpetuity i guess.
Some good rainy day reading.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1783675&tn=0&mr=0
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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Even when the road is blocked at the bottom it's not that big of a deal. I arrived at the gate early one morning all bummed that it was locked. My plan was Sky Pilot and I was trying to think of a last minute alternative as I wasn't interested in adding that slog. Eventually I just decided to go for it on my mountain bike and the lower part went very quickly with only some minor pushing of the bike and the descent was awesome.
I always wanted to invent a 5lb fold up bike that you could roll down the logging roads with and save your knees.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Aug 17, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
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Posted on Fb by Friends of the Chief:
A message from the responsible official in the Ministry of Forests:
" The status of the road will essentially be the same as it's been for approx. the last 20 years.
Yes the S2S gondola has the proper authority to install a gate. A gate has been approved to be installed on the FSR which restricts vehicular access at the same location the public has been able to drive to. The S2S gondola is building a small parking area that will be located near the gate to accommodate people heading into the back country. Public access is being maintained and there is nothing preventing people from walking/cycling up the road past the gate.
I think the overall condition of the road and access into the areas you describe will actually be improved. I have been told that the improvements to the road are providing for increased access to popular rock climbing routes.
One of the factors considered before approving the gate was that the S2S gondola is bringing significant investment into our community and they were concerned about having unrestricted vehicle traffic driving up to their upper station while guests were paying to get there from the bottom. The installation of the gate was approved to allow them to get their business concept up and running. The effectiveness/requirement of a gate may be looked at in the future once the business has had time to become established."
Contact:
Dave Southam, District Manager,
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
Sea to Sky District
Suite 101-42000 Loggers Lane
Squamish BC
V8B 0H3
Telephone: 604 898-2100
Facsimile: 604 898-2191
E-Mail: Forests.SquamishDistrictOffice@gov.bc.ca
Steve Thomson
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
PO Box 9049
STN PROV GOVT
VICTORIA, BC
V8W 9E2
Telephone: 250 387-6240
Fax: 250 387-1040
Email: FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca
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MH2
climber
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Aug 17, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
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Reid was a straight-ahead type. There seem to me to be at least 3 loosely connected thoughts, here:
One of the factors considered before approving the gate was that the S2S gondola is bringing significant investment into our community and they were concerned about having unrestricted vehicle traffic driving up to their upper station while guests were paying to get there from the bottom.
Although it is considerate of S2S to protect their guests from being told, "We just drove up."
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