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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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"I have much people in this city."
Acts 18:10
This should be a great encouragement to try to do good, since God has among the vilest of the vile, the most reprobate, the most debauched and drunken, an elect people who must be saved. When you take the Word to them, you do so because God has ordained you to be the messenger of life to their souls, and they must receive it, for so the decree of predestination runs. They are as much redeemed by blood as the saints before the eternal throne. They are Christ's property, and yet perhaps they are lovers of the ale-house, and haters of holiness; but if Jesus Christ purchased them he will have them. God is not unfaithful to forget the price which his Son has paid. He will not suffer his substitution to be in any case an ineffectual, dead thing. Tens of thousands of redeemed ones are not regenerated yet, but regenerated they must be; and this is our comfort when we go forth to them with the quickening Word of God.
Nay, more, these ungodly ones are prayed for by Christ before the throne. "Neither pray I for these alone," saith the great Intercessor, "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word." Poor, ignorant souls, they know nothing about prayer for themselves, but Jesus prays for them. Their names are on his breastplate, and ere long they must bow their stubborn knee, breathing the penitential sigh before the throne of grace. "The time of figs is not yet." The predestinated moment has not struck; but, when it comes, they shall obey, for God will have his own; they must, for the Spirit is not to be withstood when he cometh forth with fulness of power--they must become the willing servants of the living God. "My people shall be willing in the day of my power." "He shall justify many." "He shall see of the travail of his soul." "I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong."
CHARLES SPURGEON
...CLAIMED BY CHRIST HIMSELF SO DON'T FIGHT IT, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! : )
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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If I understood the multiple religions which I explored rather fruitlessly for many years before giving up on it, God is ineffable. Right?
Ineffable.
It seems as though some who agree that he/she/it is ineffable have found some sort of avenue right into his/her/its mind. Or perhaps they are persuaded by their own interpretation of a book written thousands of years ago by a hodge-podge of rather primitive people in one or more archaic languages, translated through dozens of languages, in multiple versions, edited depending on the politics of the time, and still detailing some horrible pronouncements - which are avoided by the book's adherents.
Secular humanism would seem to incorporate all that Jesus preached, in terms of human relationships, while denying the existence of God and an afterlife. Seems like a beneficial attitude -though not a religion - which would be valuable in today's world.
Interesting quote:
"There are scores of thousands of human insects who are ready at a moment's notice to reveal the will of God on every possible subject."
George Bernard Shaw
I wish he hadn't got into entomology there, as it is gratuitously insulting. And you can understand believers who have been indoctrinated since childhood. But scratch "insects" and the statement is true.
Of course this will attract thunderbolts. But one can't argue with true believers when there is no evidence on any side, so I'll not post again on this.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Good link, Moose!
Tim, I can hardly remember the El Cap routes that I've done, but for some reason I remember the time that I was on my way back from spending a winter on Vancouver Island. I was driving this car owned by one of my Canadian friends who stayed and couldn't get this American car registered in Canada. I decided to spend the night in Humber Park for the last night of my journey. I just remember running into you and hanging out together for a bit. I was one of the Poway Mountaineers and knew Tobin. Not much of a story.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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What Child Is This?
BY DAVID JEREMIAH
The two trajectories of Infinity and Infancy crossed at Bethlehem, making Christmas a mystery that flows like a bottomless river from the depths of God’s heart. On the most remarkable night that ever was, a baby cried and eternity was changed. In a stable in Bethlehem, the God-baby passed from a virgin’s womb into humanity and into history. A child was born; a Son was given; a Savior came down from heaven, and earth received her King.
We’ve never gotten over it. His name was Jesus, and we’ve never gotten over Him.But why did Jesus come in this way, as a baby? What if Christ had chosen to descend from heaven fully grown? What if He had simply appeared on earth at age 33, ready to die for our sins? Why did God choose to bring the Savior of the world to us through a process of supernatural conception and natural birth?
Everything about the Gospel is bound up in that question, and all the answers are in God’s Word.
First, Jesus came into the world as an infant so the bloodline of all humanity would flow through His veins. The New Testament begins with these words: “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matthew 1:1). In Luke’s account, Jesus’ line of descent goes all the way back to Adam (Luke 3:38). Jesus didn’t simply come to die for us; He came to shed His blood for all the world, and the lineage of all the world was in His blood.
Second, through the miracle of the Virgin Birth, Jesus acquired a twofold nature, being both God and Man. He is unique, fully human and fully divine, simultaneously. Nothing about His humanity detracts from His godliness; nothing about His godliness detracts from His humanity. As God, He has the power to save; as Man, He has the ability to provide salvation by dying for our sins. Only through this can He reconcile the Father in heaven with His children on earth. He is the bridge by which God comes to earth and by which people come to heaven.
Noted theologian Wayne Grudem wrote:
It probably would have been possible for God to create Jesus as a complete human being in heaven and send him to descend from heaven to earth without the benefit of any human parent. But then it would have been very hard for us to see how Jesus could be fully human as we are…. On the other hand, it probably would have been possible for God to have Jesus come into the world with two human parents, both a father and a mother, and with his full divine nature miraculously united to His human nature at some point early in His life. But then it would have been hard for us to understand how Jesus was fully God, since his origin was like ours in every way…. God, in his wisdom, ordained a combination of human and divine influence in the birth of Christ, so that his full humanity would be evident to us from the fact of his ordinary human birth from a human mother, and his full deity would be evident from the fact of his conception in Mary’s womb by the powerful work of the Holy Spirit.1
Third, Jesus also came as a newborn baby to fulfill the possibility of living a perfect life. He had 33 years to demonstrate His righteousness before giving His life as a sinless substitute. Even His executioner proclaimed, “Certainly this was a righteous Man!” (Luke 23:47) His chief apostle called Him “a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Peter 1:19). Dr. G. Campbell Morgan put it like this: “The death of Christ would have been of no avail for the redemption of the world, had it not been preceded by His perfect life.”2
Earlier this year, an interesting letter arrived at the town hall of Owendale, Michigan. It contained an apology and some money—fifty dollars. The anonymous writer said he had been drinking heavily one night during the holidays sometime in the 1960s and had stolen lights off the town Christmas tree near the town tavern. He had endured years of remorse, and so no, at last, he wanted to pay for what he had stolen.
Every human being since Adam has battled a guilty conscience—except for Christ, whose conscience was as pure as His life. Because of that we can draw near to Him “in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience…” (Hebrews 10:22).
Fourth, Jesus came as a baby and grew to manhood as we do so He could identify with every phase of our lives. The Bible says,
Both the one who makes people holy [Jesus] and those who are made holy [us] are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters…. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted. (Hebrews 2:11-18, NIV)
Fifth, Jesus came as a baby to show us the importance of families. Before God created the institution of the state, the entity of the Church, or the nation of Israel, He created a home—a family, starting with Adam and Eve. How fitting, then, that the Lord would begin the process of bringing salvation to the world within the context of another couple—Joseph and Mary. As Nicole Cottrell points out,
God chose for the Savior of the world to be born into, what else, but a family. God knows that families can provide the support, encouragement, discipline, and love that we need to become whole and healthy. God chose for Jesus, the Savior of the world, to be raised by a mother and father, surrounded by siblings and other family members… [Jesus] was born into a family because families are important to God.3
That’s why Christmas is so child-friendly. Have you noticed how children are drawn to nativity sets? Later in this edition of Turning Points, I’ll give you some suggestions for using a simple nativity set to teach children the great truths of Jesus and His Gospel. But for now, just think of the wonder in the hearts of children as they hear the words, “Away in a manger, no crib for a bed, / The little Lord Jesus laid down His sweet head.” Children are mentioned about a hundred times in the Gospels, and the One who wants the little children to come to Him provided a wonderful starting point for them—His own picturesque birth in a stable filled with hay and hallelujahs.
I love the carols of Christmas, but sometimes they have a pensive, almost melancholy, mood to them. That’s all right. The Incarnation is a story that tugs at the heart of all the world and sends its shafts of meaning to the very depths of our souls. One example of a plaintive carol is “What Child Is This?” He’s the one whom shepherds guard and angels sing. He is God and Man, Lord and Savior, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. He’s Savior and He’s Judge. He’s the Lamb and the Lion. He’s Lover of all and Lord of all. He came as a tender baby to share the bloodline of all humanity; to combine in Himself a twofold nature to save us from our sins; to demonstrate perfect righteousness; to identify with us in every way; and to show us the importance of families.
If God so thoroughly planned a way for you to be reconciled to Himself, isn’t Christmas the perfect time to receive that gift? Isn’t now the time to be saved? There’s no greater tragedy than putting down this article without saying: “Lord, if You were born to die for me, I’m ready to proclaim You as my Lord and Savior right now.”
Do as the shepherds of Bethlehem did that night long ago. Bow before Him, behold Him, believe Him, and go tell someone else about Him this Christmas!
Haste, haste to bring Him laud,
The Babe, the Son of Mary.
...Mr. Donini, not sure why God picked our Earth for this but I'm glad He did! : )
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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The Christian's Position
by Henry M. Morris III, D.Min.
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” (Ephesians 1:4)
The search for identity and meaning can drive one to great successes or tragic failures. For the Christian, however, the question is answered throughout Ephesians.
We are chosen! We are selected as a favorite out of “many [who] are called” (Matthew 22:14) “out of the world” (John 15:19). What a privilege! We are God’s choice to bear His name, represent His cause, and share His glory throughout eternity.
In fact, we are “predestinated [previous boundaries set] . . . unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself” (Ephesians 1:5). And “if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:17).
Furthermore, we have been “accepted in the beloved” (Ephesians 1:6). That word, “accepted,” is a specialized form of the word most often translated “grace.” We have been “graced” by almighty God, who has set absolute boundaries around our lives and made us His children. We were purchased “through his blood” (v. 7) “that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar [that is, ‘precious’] people, zealous of good works” (Titus 2:14).
Moreover, we are forgiven (Ephesians 1:7)! Our sins are “covered” (Psalm 32:1); “cast” behind God’s back (Isaiah 38:17); removed “as far as the east is from the west” (Psalm 103:12); “remember[ed] . . . no more” (Jeremiah 31:34); and cleansed “from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
Hallelujah! Since we are God’s children, we should have no identity crisis. We are a chosen, predestined, accepted, redeemed, forgiven, and holy people. Finally, we are predestined “to be conformed to the image of his Son” (Romans 8:29). HMM III http://www.icr.org/article/9657/
...We love, because He first loved us and who doesn't love a rich friend!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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goB, how might I know that it is really Jesus and the Christian God and not, say Mohammed and Allah that we should be worshipping? Why not display some spam from The Koran?
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Why not display some spam from The Koran?
Uh, because Muslims don't do the pork thing?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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re: bliss of ignorance
Maybe the bliss of ignorance would've been better?
"Well, it's not like psychologists don't tell you that. All those positive illusion people - that's their whole shtick. That's right, it's better to be a little bit dumb about how things work because otherwise there's no way you can be happy. It's like that's an idiotic notion on two counts - (a) Happy isn't the point and (b) Dumb is not the goal."
"It's so ignorant it's actually corrupt.... It's a hell of a thing to teach people. You have to delude yourself in a minor way, otherwise you can't stand being alive. Oh my god. That's awful."
"Here's a different story: Maybe you're tough enough to open your eyes. That would be a much better story. And it's possible too. Because people are really really tough."
Jordan Peterson
Maps of Meaning
Years ago here I enjoyed making the point re belief and belief systems: When it's not about facts, it's often about attitude.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”. ...
Werner Heisenberg
I may never reach the bottom of the glass, but it's an interesting statement.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 14, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
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An Introduction to Christ
Revelation 1:4-8
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
John gives us a compact description of the Lord. Verse 5 in today’s passage condenses the wondrous nature of Jesus Christ to the bare but beautiful essentials of who He is.
Jesus Christ is the faithful witness. Jesus came to earth to more fully reveal the character and ways of the Father (John 14:9). The miracles He performed validated His claim to be the Son of God.
Jesus Christ is the firstborn from the dead. The Savior bore our sins and died on the cross, was buried, and rose again on the third day. His resurrection proved that eternal life is possible for us, too, which is what Jesus taught when He said, “He who believes in Me will live even if he dies” (John 11:25).
Jesus Christ is ruler over the kings of the earth. The Lord raises men to power, just as it is He who removes them (John 19:11; see also Rom. 13:1). And believers have access to a higher authority than human leaders. In God’s throne room, we can beseech Him on behalf of our land and lay claim to His promises.
Jesus Christ loves us and, by His blood, released us from our sins. Note the change of tense in Revelation 1:5. The Lord’s love is ever-present, but He has freed believers from their past (NIV). Both the penalty and power of sin have been broken by His sacrifice.
When people ask you about Jesus, introduce Him by guiding them through this mini biography. In just a few sentences, John describes Christ’s character, divinity, and authority. The disciple was not timid about proclaiming the Lord to whomever he encountered. We shouldn’t be shy, either, when we serve so great a Savior. https://www.intouch.org/read/magazine/daily-devotions/an-introduction-to-christ
...Jesus 101 - Jesus is BOSS!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Dec 14, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
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I would imagine if you were to do a statistical analysis, you would find an extremely high correlation between what people believe and what their parents believe. Certainly there would be a very high correlation coefficient in Muslim countries - probably well above 90 percent. It would probably a little lower among Christians (I, myself, am a "lapsed Catholic"). So, statistically, this is the correct answer -- it is because their parents believe/believed in God.
Why humans, as a species, have a strong tendency to believe in a God is a different question altogether. This is an evolutionary biology question, the answer of which will eventually be teased out of the data, in my opinion.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 14, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
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you would find an extremely high correlation between what people believe and what their parents believe.
That bridge goes both ways. I can see how letting your kids come up with their own beliefs is a rational decision from an atheistic point of view, but you gotta cut parents who want to pass on their faith some slack.
Look at it from our perspective, if you had knowledge that you believed to be true and also believed it would greatly improve the lives of your kids in this life and the next, wouldn't you share it?
In a practical sense, if they had an illness and you had the medicine, would you not tell them about it? I think most parents would. We simply do not agree on whether the medicine helps (or is real).
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 14, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
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Ya I bet you're right about that.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 14, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
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Good points above. Concur on correlation re my folks to me. I failed re my kids due ro divorce and other spiritual factors.
I have a degree in engineering. I an smart and skeptical. Having studied the evidence (Bible, etc) the preponderance of evidence suggests the Resurrection occurred, and Jesus defeated death abs paid the price for a wanker like me. For which I give thanks.
From Bimini.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 14, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
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Malemute: The human brain appears to be hardwired to find causes for any "effect" experienced in the world, from eerie sounds, to scary thunder, to terrifying ground shakes, and deadly diseases.
Enter Science.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 17, 2016 - 10:40am PT
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Little Children
“And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:2-3)
Many adult Christians have the mistaken notion that little children are too young to understand the gospel and so should not be allowed to decide for Christ until they are much older. The problem, however, is not the children; it is the adults who find it hard to understand! They must become like little children before they can really comprehend the way of salvation and be converted. Jesus said, “Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. . . . Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein” (Luke 18:16-17).
After all, what is there to understand? A very young child, instructed in the Scriptures from infancy as God has commanded his parents (note 2 Timothy 3:15, which uses the Greek word for “baby” as the state in which young Timothy began to know the Bible), can surely comprehend that the God to whom his parents pray made him, that he has sinned against God when he does wrong, that God sent His Son, Jesus, to die for his sins, and that Jesus can save him and take him to heaven. An adult may require much explanation and may imagine many difficulties, but a child will simply believe—and that’s enough!
The word for “little child” or “little children” actually means children who are not much more than toddlers. It is the same word rendered “young child” when the wise men came to find Jesus in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:8, etc.). Little children should, by all means, be taught the gospel and should be encouraged to come to Christ before they grow too old to understand with their hearts! HMM
http://www.icr.org/article/9669/
...Children love & trust their Father!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 17, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
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10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion
Sounds like he went through some rough stuff with religion. Hope someday he sees it's about a relationship, not some messed up man made power struggle (AKA religion)
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Dec 18, 2016 - 09:27am PT
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I am smart and skeptical.
Everyone seems to believe that, but very few believe they believe it because they're self-confirmation biased.
We believe stuff - it's how we work. We're still working out exactly how it is that we work.
Sure social influences (like our parents and friends and local community) exert a huge effect on what we believe.
But IMHO, believing that we're smart and skeptical comes more from the 4 billion years of evolution that created our parents. If we don't believe that what we believe is true, what's the use of our 4-billion-years-in-the-making belief processes anyway? We're smart and skeptical, and we believe that what we believe is true, so we're motivated to act according to our beliefs.
So sure - Jesus or Trump - believe it! if that's the way your beliefs roll. You're smart and skeptical so you're probably right.
But in the end, the value of our beliefs is not so much whether or not they're true, as it is whether or not they inspire advantageous behaviors.
The socialization of our beliefs, as a big piece of how our belief processes work, used to be wildly advantageous. But in today's informational environment, in some ways it's becoming disadvantageous.
Sure we can try to fight it by not telling our kids what we believe, or trying to be rigorously anti-social, to avoid the social entanglement of our belief creation processes.
But can we, really? IMHO, that's just not how we work.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 18, 2016 - 09:41am PT
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Many have observed that we resort to god when we (reach the bottom of the glass) where we don't know how things work. We all used to know how to fix our car. Now how many can do this? If so the complex technologies issuing from science work against widely held understanding.
More of the principle that all things carry within them the seeds of their own destruction.
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