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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nice nonsequiturs dikhead and Escopeta. Denial is not an argument.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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So you can't answer or not willing to be honest that your rhetoric doesn't match your true feelings?
EDIT: Jon Beck, I would be curious to know what you consider to be my "assessment" of the military. When you see it, be sure to let me know.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Sorry there Rad Dad if you cannot see the corollary
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Essy - your assessment of the military is insulting to anyone who has served. The military, from top to bottom will not obey unlawful orders. There are a few exceptions to that rule, the residents of My Lai are witnesses to that, at least the ones that survived, 500 died.
Precisely the point that I tried to make up-thread. The reason for having an armed citizenry has nothing to do with the outcome of a potential armed conflict. It begs the question: How many military officers, police commanders etc., will obey the orders of a desperate government to turn their weapons on large numbers of American citizens. An armed public is a line drawn in the sand, one which military and police officers will find difficult to cross.
There's the companion argument, also pit out by gun rights folks, that an armed citizenry is needed to protect against the tyranny of the government, if needed. One, that is contrary what the intended purpose of the Second Amendment. Two, its insurrectionist. Three, the notion that a bunch of rednecks could even remotely resist, let alone overtake Blackhawk helicopters, clusterbombs...
What then is the intent of the second amendment? Why is it in the Bill of Rights, directly following the right of free speech and assembly?
Also, considering that there are roughly as many guns as people in America, calling their owners out as a bunch of rednecks is a bit of a stretch. I'm not worried about a Ruby Ridge or Waco, or the recent episode up in Oregon. It's the "never put a good crisis to waste" logic, the logic by which a desperate President could use a political crisis as reason to declare martial law.
If you don't think our government is capable of such misbehavior get yourself a time machine and go back to a Japanese internment camp between 1942-45. American citizens stripped of their liberty, property, businesses, everything. Forced to live in remote, harsh camps out of the public eye. All because of their ethnicity. And this was ordered by one of our more popular Presidents.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Donald Trump has bodyguards everywhere he goes, and an entire platoon protecting him as he travels the country hand-waving out of his Trump-mobile.
Here's the question. (Remember, the whole military is with him and protecting him at all times).
"the whole military is with him", is that figuratively or literally? maybe I do not understand Essy-speak.
The Secret Service protects the president, not the military.
If you don't think our government is capable of such misbehavior get yourself a time machine and go back to a Japanese internment camp between 1942-45. American citizens stripped of their liberty, property, businesses, everything. Forced to live in remote, harsh camps out of the public eye. All because of their ethnicity. And this was ordered by one of our more popular Presidents.
How many gun owners resisted the internment camps? none. The government is not going to enslave the entire population, instead they will pick a scapegoat and the armed "militias" will support the government. The scapegoat du jour will be Muslims.
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Norton
Social climber
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What then is the intent of the second amendment?
to insure that well regulated national guard units in the 1700s would be able to round up enough muskets to take on England's King George again if he tired to mess with us
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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to insure that well regulated national guard units in the 1700s would be able to round up enough muskets to take on England's King George again if he tired to mess with us
If so, it would not be in the Bill of Rights, a series of amendments which limit the power of our own government.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I'm sorry, where in the Constitution does it say that is the correct interpretation?
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Norton
Social climber
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I'm sorry, where in the Constitution does it say that is the correct interpretation?
in the hearsay section
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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How many gun owners resisted the internment camps? none. The government is not going to enslave the entire population, instead they will pick a scapegoat and the armed "militias" will support the government. The scapegoat du jour will be Muslims.
Excellent point. Indeed public pressure was an element in Roosevelt's poor decision. I pray you are wrong about the second part. But other than the possibility of one or a few sick individuals I cannot imagine Americans taking up arms against our Muslim population.
I'm sorry, where in the Constitution does it say that is the correct interpretation?
?? Which interpretation are you asking about?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jon Beck, if you want to be part of the discussion, you really should read the posts.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And if you add Wisconsin and Michigan together, you now have more "soldiers" than the entire US Active military.
Again, turn off the electricity, gas, water, the gas pumps, food distribution centers and shutter McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts and as a midwesterner I guarantee you Wisconsin and Michigan wouldn't last a week. In fact, forced to walk anywhere further than the neighborhood pub they'd collapse in piles that would pave the streets.They could possibly defend a Walmart for as long as the twinkies held out otherwise it's a friggin' joke. That and they'd be shooting each other with wild abandon inside a month.
Militias. Righto.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Escopeta queried How long till Donald Trump the Dictator is dead?
Ask any actual dictator. You posit the question as if everything is as it is now. In reality he would have prepped for his coup by fomenting unrest and appealing to the most nationalistic, jingoistic and racist among us. By the time the coup takes place, millions of people would support him because they would share his belief that only Trump could save us. Anyone who opposed him would be either killed, bribed or strong armed. Any armed resistance would be used to justify why Trump had to maintain his tight fisted dictatorship. Iraq, Afghanistan and plenty of other countries with huge numbers of privately held weapons seem to have no problem maintaining tyrannical rule. Trump already appeals to the most heavily armed demographic in America, and they are eating up his racist garbage. He's off to a good start.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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What else happens before a dictator takes over? You know your history and hence, you know the answer.
Nobody wants to answer the question because it doesn't jive with your rhetoric. Interesting
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Great. Do your 2nd Amendment duty and go shoot Trump then, before he takes your guns away, just like Obama did. Or better yet, cite me an example where a dictator took guns away from citizens where the right to bear arms was protected by law. I'll wait for your nonresponsive, pithy comment.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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It warms my heart when people do the very thing they are accusing others of doing.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Iraq, Afghanistan and plenty of other countries with huge numbers of privately held weapons
Afghanistan is #102 on the list with less than 5 privately owned weapons per 100 people. A few people with all the guns there seem to keep a pretty tight lid on things.
Iraq is ranked #7 with 34/100. The situation there is more complex than I have time for. Apparently Hussein had little gun control so long as you were Sunni, then a lot of guns fell into private hands during and after the war. So the count is a guess.
Cosmic, you need to teach your little sister the difference between a gun and a SAW.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Escopeta posted What else happens before a dictator takes over? You know your history and hence, you know the answer.
I literally spelled it out in the post before yours? You stroking out or something? If you smell burnt toast go to the ED right away.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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dude was in on it obviously
vvvvv good post, sir, glad you have the patience
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