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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Sep 20, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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It's easy to believe in gods, angels and fairies
They are the answer to all life's difficult questions
It's hard to be honest enough to admit you may be wrong
and even more difficult to admit your answers before were complete BS, and you have to look for answers the hard way.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Sep 20, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
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It's hard to be honest enough to admit you may be wrong
and even more difficult to admit your answers before were complete BS, and you have to look for answers the hard way.
Well said. You must be a "believer",one that struggled with Faith the same was I.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sep 20, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
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As a religion Jesus's tenets make great foundation for a secular ethic.
And, as a religion.....myths have their value.
Seems like the forgiveness of sin thing just let's you off the hook for being responsible for your actions.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Sep 20, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
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Good one Locker, and that's when Elvis got his hair do, helmet hair!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Sep 21, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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Hey Matt/Gobe
Good to have you back
now I can say this once again, no more scripture,
say it in your own words
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 21, 2016 - 10:04am PT
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Craig you cut and paste your stoopid cartoons everyday..
Thanks goB we all need scripture everyday!
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Sep 21, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
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Hey Craig, Thanks!
I'll leave you with this one anyway...
"I will rejoice over them to do them good."
Jeremiah 32:41
How heart-cheering to the believer is the delight which God has in his saints! We cannot see any reason in ourselves why the Lord should take pleasure in us; we cannot take delight in ourselves, for we often have to groan, being burdened; conscious of our sinfulness, and deploring our unfaithfulness; and we fear that God's people cannot take much delight in us, for they must perceive so much of our imperfections and our follies, that they may rather lament our infirmities than admire our graces. But we love to dwell upon this transcendent truth, this glorious mystery: that as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so does the Lord rejoice over us. We do not read anywhere that God delighteth in the cloud-capped mountains, or the sparkling stars, but we do read that he delighteth in the habitable parts of the earth, and that his delights are with the sons of men. We do not find it written that even angels give his soul delight; nor doth he say, concerning cherubim and seraphim, "Thou shalt be called Hephzibah, for the Lord delighteth in thee"; but he does say all that to poor fallen creatures like ourselves, debased and depraved by sin, but saved, exalted, and glorified by his grace. In what strong language he expresses his delight in his people! Who could have conceived of the eternal One as bursting forth into a song? Yet it is written, "He will rejoice over thee with joy, he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing." As he looked upon the world he had made, he said, "It is very good"; but when he beheld those who are the purchase of Jesus' blood, his own chosen ones, it seemed as if the great heart of the Infinite could restrain itself no longer, but overflowed in divine exclamations of joy. Should not we utter our grateful response to such a marvellous declaration of his love, and sing, "I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation?"
CHARLES SPURGEON
...Woot!
But God
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D. | Sep. 21, 2016
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Galatians 4:4-5)
God makes all the difference! There was a time when the whole world was in bondage to sin and death. But God!
“But . . . God sent forth his Son . . . To redeem them that were under the law.” Because He did, “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God” (Romans 8:21). But there was a problem, for every man was still a lost sinner, deserving to die under the righteous, well-deserved wrath of a Holy God. But God!
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). He died for us, suffering in our place, because He loved us. The issue is not yet settled, however, for how could a dead redeemer complete the work He was sent to do? But God!
“But God raised him from the dead” (Acts 13:30). The price for sin was for ever settled, so that God, in full righteousness and in mighty power, could raise His beloved Son, alive forevermore. Yes, but we ourselves are still sinful—still dying. Our very nature keeps us in bondage to sin, even though the price for our deliverance has been fully paid. But God!
“But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ. . . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; . . . it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:4-5, 8). We cannot fully understand. But God does not require us to understand—only to believe, and receive. HMM http://www.icr.org/articles/type/6
...That'll work!
Cheers!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 21, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
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IMHO, morality is a human belief process that helps us work together, because we're more effective working together than individually. I agree with that too. Which also means that in a purely physical, logic based world there is no such thing as right and wrong. Just rules we made up to help humans survive, which is neither right nor wrong if we are simply another animal in the universe.
I'm trying to explain why I think (know) that without some sort of faith in a higher power or creator you can't KNOW the difference between right and wrong because there is none. It's an interesting thought and I enjoy discussing it so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Or beating a live human, because what's the difference?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Sep 21, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
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Love the holier than thou, self-righteousness of the non-believers.
Love the irony.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 21, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
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When someone denigrates someone else because they don't "believe" the same things they do, their credibility is suspect.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 21, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
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Not sure if you're referring to me? That's not the intent of my posts. I often hear the argument that goes something like, "you don't need God/religion/book/faith to know right from wrong. I know what's good and bad and if you need someone else to tell you then you have issues."
My question is always, what do you use to define right and wrong? I'm not trying to say one view is more valuable than another, I just don't understand the other side of the debate.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 21, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
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Stalbro, I hope you're among those who appreciate the importance of distinguishing between (a) the denigration of someone else because they don't "believe" and (b) criticism of ideas innate to belief (chances are, old, out-dated, iron aged belief) in the pursuit of better practices.
(2) "their credibility is suspect" Why their credibility? Seems to me their character would be suspect way moreso.
My two cents tonight.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 21, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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Only stupid atheist believe in God.
They believe that God doesn't exist and believe that saying so will make it true.
Theists don't believe in God, they absolutely know he exists since they see him in everything and localized.
Atheists are stooopid and waste all their stooopid time denying ........
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 21, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
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I probably use the same sources as you do, by and large.
My question to you - why does the prospect of no higher authority undermine your morals? Not mine, not others; yours. What is it about your morals that would go... absent, if not for the presence of god?
DMT
I don't know if they would change, what I mean is that there would be no logical reason for them. As it is now, I believe there is a creator who defined right and wrong. If there is no creator then, logically, it's all atoms and electricity so I can't come up with any reason for atoms and electricity to do/not do certain things.
Don't kill anyone. Why? So people can survive. Why is that good? Because it will make people sad. Why is that bad?
I'm not saying I would go around raping and pillaging if it wasn't for my belief in Jesus, but I am saying that logically it wouldn't matter.
Maybe I'm not doing a good job explaining or answering questions. It seems like a simple concept that I might be unintentionally complicating. I just want to know if anyone can explain the difference between right and wrong in the absence of a "guidebook" so to speak. Not which actions are right or wrong, but what makes actions right or wrong?
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
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Mark 7:20-23 “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
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My comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. I think it is important for people to distinguish between their beliefs, other people's experiences, and the world at large.
No one has a monopoly on the meaning of human existence. No one.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Sep 21, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
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My higher mind tells me what the answer is to everything
It is my superior intellect
Too bad I don't know what that means...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 21, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
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As it is now, I believe there is a creator who defined right and wrong.
Then they did an incredibly suck job of it. I mean, seriously suck job of it. And what about newborns and infants who die without ever experiencing either? Having worked in the peds wing of a nursing home taking care of newborns and infants who only had a short time to live my lasting take is that if there is a god, s/he totally and relentlessly sucks balls.
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John M
climber
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Sep 21, 2016 - 11:25pm PT
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Reincarnation explains all of that. There are very few people on this planet currently who haven't had more then one lifetime. And most have had many lifetimes. There are layers to everything.
God never ever wanted any child to die. We were created to live long lives. But we were also given free will and through our choices we create the karma that rules our lives. Including a child who is born with illness or dies young. Those children are not young souls and that was not their first human lifetime.
And yes, I understand that the christian church does not teach reincarnation.
If people could only understand the layers and levels of life that this planet has undergone. We were originally created with a less dense body that could easily go 1000 years. Our current body maxes out at about 120 years. That was not God's choice for us, but the result of our choices. One can't have free will without consequences. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction applies to more then just force or motion. It has a spiritual meaning. You reap what you sow. The difference in the spiritual understanding is that the reaction does not have to happen immediately.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Sep 22, 2016 - 06:00am PT
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The impermanent and transitory nature of life is all so meaningless.
Here it is, almost to end of the barbecue season again.
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