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Fredrick
Social climber
Ocean City, NJ
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May 29, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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I see there are a few scientists out there as well that need "scientific evidence". Well, you're not going to get that neither for, "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." (Hebrews 11:3)
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Fredrick
Social climber
Ocean City, NJ
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May 29, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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Don't get me wrong for the mind of a human being is extraordinary! We are just leaving out one crucial variable in the equation...God! "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:2)
So, if charity is God's love, and "...God is love." (1John 4:8b), then, since God is missing and an equation needs to be equal on both sides in order for it to work (something vs. nothing) then, as a scientist, wouldn't it be non-scientific to not consider using God in the equation?
Even the famous Dr. Werner von Braun," the father of our space program with NASA", wrote: "To be forced to believe only one conclusion-that everything in the universe happened by chance-would violate the very objectivity of science itself." He also concluded in his letter to the California State Board of Education on September 14, 1972: "We in NASA were often asked what the real reason was for the amazing string of successes we had with our Apollo flights to the Moon. I think the only honest answer we could give was that we tried to never overlook anything." (http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/aasi/aasi0250.htm);
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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May 29, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
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Pate, you bring real tears to my eyes. Really kinda crying right now. Dude, if you ever got to know the man, he was all about putting down the so called "righteous" establishment. (God did not create "priests".)
In fact my best friend, j, called them whited sepulchres. Painted nice white on the outside, but filthy rotten on the inside.
I've mentioned this for two years. No one has answered me here on ST.
Take 30 minutes of yo life and read Matthew Chapters 5,6, and 7. If humans lived this the ENTIRE planet would be changed. War, killing, hatred, etc. would be gone !
We would live a simple life. Not grasping for more stuff, but caring and sharing with those that have NADA. It would be about them not about ME. You know when all is done here and your life is Over it's what you Gave not what you Made. I could write more but who cares. ??? lynnie
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 29, 2010 - 10:54pm PT
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edit: THIS is NOT in response to ANYONE in particular either!
There is no need to convince oneself after He has taken over your life. It is a personal relationship.
I know it is impossible for most to perceive, but His presence erases any doubt.
You have a body, soul and a spirit(which is where you commune with God). The spirit is not whole without Gods presence. It is empty/void and searching/yearning to be filled.
I was 100% convinced at 8 years old that Jesus is God!
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Fredrick
Social climber
Ocean City, NJ
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May 29, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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Lynne,
You may think you don't know me but you really do. When I read your above post, I was MOVED for I can tell by that which is in your heart comes out of your mouth and that you are a child with Christ in you! Thank God for saving our lives and it's a pleasure to have got to know you.
Speaking of predictions, God has prophesized since the beginning (Genesis) and has been 100% accurate ever since. And further more, that definition of a "Priest" sounds alot like me before I was saved and still like me when I don't let Christ's Spirit within me establish my thoughts, tell me what to look at, and guide my hands and feet. We, as saved Christians, aren't claiming to be "Saints" but quite the opposite. I'm dirt dude, just plain ol' dirt, I am nothing. But with God inside me I can accomplish more than I can imagine! I've secured my place in heaven, but will be answerable to God at His judgement seat as will EVERYONE! What my consequences will be are T.B.D. before I enter into His kingdom.
When Lynne said she was sheading tears, it wasn't just a cliche', she really meant that, for what she feels for God and you is very personal and much more than you know, which is a far cry from what you would have expected from her before she excepted Christ. I hope you don't mind me speaking for you Lynne. Like she said, it's not about her anymore but about God and others. When life is lived by God's system of management, everything extra (blessings) is extra credit.
All God is asking of everyone is to admit you're a sinner, believe with your heart (your passions and emotions) in Him, that Jesus was a real person, died the death of the cross for OUR sins, so we don't have to (go to hell), and was resurrected after the third day (defeated death). It's a gift, that means it's free, with no thought of return. But you have to reach out and take it. It's that easy.
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WBraun
climber
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May 29, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
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Trip -- "I was 100% convinced at 8 years old that Jesus is God!"
That doesn't make any sense.
Jesus was the son and God is the Father.
The son being son and God simultaneous is impersonalism.
They are only one in consciousness ...
Still there is individuality.
Simultaneous oneness and difference.
Even the material scientist can see that.
Each snow flake is different in pattern, no 2 are ever the same.
But they are all still snow ....
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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Christ never left.
How could he ever leave.
Your thinking material body, attached to a body. Something finite.
Yet you worship his teachings (Christ consciousness) and they are one and the same.
Jesus Christ never left ..... omnipresent.
Lord Jesus Christ, he claimed himself that he is coming from God as son of God.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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May 30, 2010 - 12:28am PT
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Nah, Werner's not lost. Much of what we differ over is involved with semantics (of or relating to meaning in language). Wish we could all sit down peaceably in the Valley and slowly, quietly speak our hearts.
Dean, I do believe in the triune God. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Being simple lynne the best illustration I can comprehend is an apple. The apple has the skin, the meat and the core. But it is an apple. An apple made of three parts but still an apple.
Apart from everything and all that I love is the Creator God's bottom line. So beautifully simple lynnie can get it........
Only two things matter ........jesus said only these two things are important.
1) Love God
2) Love all people
Do it. The rest is simply semantics.......Peace all and I love you. lynnie
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 30, 2010 - 12:30am PT
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hey there say... just wandering through here for a bit before i read the supertopo....
wow lynne, some sweet stuff there... :)
perhaps a bit more things to think on might add some newer things to talk about here as to some of the "same olds"...
so... hmmm, maybe i will add this, just to give a new angle on some old thoughts:
so, maybe this might help that father is the son type stuff...
not sure, but here goes:
some ideas are not as impossible as at first thought:
a son, is of a father and mother of course...
tissue, in life, and genetic makeup, etc...
then, of course in the "old times" (not meaning to insult woman) well, the father had full say-so as authority in the home... if a son grew to be as honorable as the father, he would have equal authority if a father allowed it... (course that is IF and as to matters over land, home owner responsibiltites, livestock, buying and selling, whatever...
so of couse, "i and the father are one" would fit that way...
as to historic ways of old...
but also, in a spiritual reamlm, the sun gives a good picture of three in one principles, and how they work:
the sun (as if a father position) gives birth of his "tissue" or projecting himself, etc, and the "light aspect of the sun" shines down as rays, and is visible in our world, so we can see by it... (yet, we cannot look at the sun itself)...
but they are all sun, and it functioning principles...
then, the "feel of the sun on our skin" the warmth or burning, etc, are felt but not seen, and they too, can do powerful things (though different than the light-being-seen aspect)...
this unseen part of the sun-power, is STILL part of the sun...
they all exist together as A three-in-one unit...
if the sun, goes, it all goes...
if the sun give life, here, as a three in one aspect, it is kind of like
a picture for folks to see, as to an example to help one see:
a three in one, god-unit, all equal... (father, son, holy spirit)...
the same three in one unit, you could see, also, works with water:
you can see it in lump form as a body, taking the shape of the lake it fills, etc... it can spray out, or flow out, as thick, or thin fine mist, as an outreach tool to give life, etc, or it can be vapor molecules, and felt as moisture in the air...
perhaps there are other things that a three in one type function... this is just to give a picture of the:
main...
the function action...
and the feel, as to affects...
hope this helps you all, as you continue on in these studies here...
god bless, all...
:)
*ps, god, jesus, holyspirt, etc, as in the bible, are not connected to a catholic church, the catholic church, and all churches, for that matter, like any other orginization, they just take from the bible and make a "club" about whatever suits the fancy of the man that first sets it up... then, the folks that gather in, follow that man's ideas, and it snowballs along... ultimately causing some very terrible messes, for sure...
take care in these things, so as to not mix god up in the man made messes...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 30, 2010 - 12:33am PT
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hey there say, lynne, wow, what a perfect timeing note you just made... and me, i rarely step in here...
say, another exaple of a three in one, funtion...
the solid apple that makes it all possible...
the nuriting aspect that nurtures the body...
the flavor... that affects the mind, and heart... :)
without the whole, the others are not there, yet they
are all equally apple... (not a hamburger, for example) ;)
:)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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May 30, 2010 - 12:37am PT
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Oh neebee, our special super topo friend.....you are always there to pull it all together with your love and sweet spirit and simple wisdom. Thanks Gal. And yeah, ain't it funnnnnnny how this happens ? I call it a holy coincidence. Joy and Fun to yo Gal this Memorial Weekend. Cheers and Hearts, lynne
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 30, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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hey there ol' lynne... wow, so very happy to see here... you did not leave yet... :)
wow, what a bit of refreshing spiritual ocean spray, so to speak, with a dab of apple in the air... ;) under the ol' sunshine of god's love...
say, well, i best be getting to go now... got lots of stuff to check, on line here, and some mail...
god bless, take care... and the good lord give us a visit
some day... >:D<
:)
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 30, 2010 - 01:09am PT
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WB!
Regarding the Trinity...
"Then God said 'Let us make man in Our image; according to Our likeness'..." Genesis 1:26
John 1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness and the darkness did not comprehend it...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
Jesus is the Word.
"I will ask the Father and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth that the world does not receive because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will also live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in Me, and I in you. John 14:16-20
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things..." John 14:26
Edit: When i was 8 yrs old, and cried out "Jesus please help me" He(the Helper/Holy Spirit)came into my life.
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2010 - 01:19am PT
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"I will ask the Father and He will give you another Helper, ..."
Here Jesus Christ asks the father. So he is son not God.
How can your son be the father of you?
But if your son follows you the father perfectly he is as good as the father.
Thus they are "one in consciousness (Jesus is the Word)" same, but still two different individuals.
This is not semantics either ... but my whole point (individuality).
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 30, 2010 - 01:48am PT
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I can't see anything wrong with what Werner is saying. I also know that our temporal minds have a hard time with concepts like the Trinity and Eternity and Infinity.
One concept I struggled with was the difference between the Supreme, the Ultimate, and the Absolute. They are not merely synonyms.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 30, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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WB!
Let me give you another analogy(BTW excellent analogy's Neebee).
Augustine believed it was possible to look at the human mind and find it in three dimensions(memory, intellect, and will)which could be compared to the Trinity in God.
Just as the three aspects of the mind are different but function as one so Augustine claimed that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were different but function as one.
The Trinity is a mystery, and will not be fully understood until the second coming/return of Christ.
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2010 - 02:00am PT
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Christ never left.
Why you keep saying when he comes back.
His words and himself are one and the same.
Thus he never left.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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May 30, 2010 - 02:04am PT
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Yah, Werner, jesus is the Word. All was created by the Word. Then the Word was made flesh and lived with us.
If we could label all the parts and aspects of God and know every part and particle of Him.....we would be equal with God. We would be God because we would know everything.
We will never be God. Our lifetime is not long enough to begin to know and comprehend the entirety of God.
Bottom Line and the Best: God Loves Us. Period. Get to know yo Papa and it's the Greatest.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 30, 2010 - 02:48am PT
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WB_ "Christ never left..."
Jesus was the first to be resurrected from the dead(His physical body).
He rose up and physically sits at the right hand of God. And just like He promised, God the Holy Spirit, is in His believers.
He will return(Jesus)physically, and reign here on earth for one thousand years, and so will His saints(believers). At that time He will resurrect the body's from their graves and unite their corporal bodies with their spirit, just like He already is.
Yes He is here as God the Holy Spirit. He is omnipresent.
Werner, you should be spending more time studying the Bible yourself.
A few more verses:
"For this cause the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He was not only breaking the Sabbath, but calling Himself the Son of God making Himself equal to God." John 5:18
"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." John 5:58
"And God said to Moses I AM WHO I AM; thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." Exodus 3:14
"I and the Father are one. The Jews picked up stones to stone Him. I showed you many good works from the Father, for which of them are you stoning Me? The Jews answered Him, For good works we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, because You being a man, make yourself out to be God." John 10:30-32
"Thomas answered and said to Him 'My Lord and my God." 20:28
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Col 2:9
"But of the Son He says 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:8
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 30, 2010 - 03:07am PT
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Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship!!
"Then Jesus said to him 'Begone, Satan! For it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God an serve Him only." Matthew 4:10
'Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east, and have come to worship Him." Matthew 2:2
"And behold Jesus met them, and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." Matthew 28:9
etc., etc.,...
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