Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
|
|
Its just amazing Ammon has not been tased before in the Valley.........
|
|
Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
|
|
i tasered my mom last night because she burned the cookies, stupid bi-atch!
but it's a long climb out of the basement.
|
|
cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
|
|
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
|
|
Running around hiding????
Kinda sounds from his words that he was walking, knew the dumb rules and doesn't worship touron guides like you do!
Once enough people climbed rock in Yos. parks had to accept it. The same can happen with other low-impact sports. But only those with balls will start - apparently Skipt would rather see roads paved and lodges built in the valley to accommodate users like him than jumping allowed to accommodate those who live between the trees and sky.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
grow up = kill your spirit, deaden your soul,
conform or be cast out,
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
the issues get a little confused in this thread, IMO.
there is the BASE issue, with all it's splinter issues:
is BASE jumping legal in whatever location(s) or should it be, why or why not, how to work toward it, whether or not to jump illegally, even questions of whether or not illegal jumping works for against the possibility of legalizing jumping.
then there are the issues surrounding tasers and their use by law enforcement, both in the park and elsewhere. these can be split again into the issues and circumstances specific to this event and those not.
what i find quite silly is that the people who are most wrapped up in supporting ammon here are unable to focus (yes i am generalizing) on the tasing without talking about the BASE issues. BASE is illegal in YNP, period. when you look at steph's video for example, i think she comes across as just a bit ridiculous (what if people wanting to shoot heroin in the meadow made the same statement? ("we just wanna be free, and it's beautiful man!). there are other places to do it legally, so do it it there, or otherwise quit whining about that aspect, it just muddys the water.
as far as tasing goes, someone posted:
The industry standard is the Taser in this type of situation.
that may be true- it seems to be based upon what i see on youtube.
this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem, and people are waking up to it. i would argue that there need to be some stringent use of force limits in place nationally, so that all violent interventions (baton, taser, weapon, whatever) are used as a last resort, period.
tasers ought not to increase the safety of the officer at the expense of the public's safety, and that is what i see happening. the use of tasers comes in too often, and too early, and it replaces a variety of skills which professional LEOs ought to be trained in and ought to be skilled in, if in fact they are there to serve the public. it's simply a question of the overall philosophy of law enforcement and just what are their priorities, and those are serious questions, not just academic considerations.
can an individual or suspect legally/reasonably be apprehended with a certain level of force, that would obviously depend on multiple criteria, but for example, would it be reasonable to use baton strikes to apprehend a petty shoplifter? a jay walker? someone skateboarding on a sidewalk where it's posted to be illegal? and what about someone walking away from a BASE jump?
i would say that a taser should never be used in an instance where the use of a baton could not also be justified, but i know that is not the current legal standard. maybe it should be? i would support working toward that end. however, i would also suggest that whining in an obtuse manner about how you just wanna be free and BASE never hurt anyone and so rangers need to work to make things better or authorities need to adapt because climbers now BASE jump, it really just sounds like a load of self entitled immaturity.
know the law, follow the law, or if you don't follow the law, understand that you are choosing to break the law and accept the consequences.
if you are jumping in protest to the law, then do it openly, not in a game of cat and mouse, that's not a protest, it's evading law enforcement. i am not saying that with judgement, i am just calling a spade a spade. that said, i do not expect that when jumpers jump illegally in YNP that it can be argued they are advancing the cause of legalizing BASE in the park.
it sure seems a shame, in so many ways, that the one poor jumper cratered in that protest a few years back- can't help but wonder if that hadn't happened if there might be more middle ground now.
paz y amor
(and happy LEO evasion, you buncha law breakers you! =)
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Is there a Legal Defense Fund setup for Ammon yet? I think quite a few who would be willing to donate some $$$.
|
|
nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
Mr Ammon, Good luck in court..
Sincerely..
nita
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
Funny that I said "Walk the Plank" then started in on the Thread about the Pirate.
Hard to pic out when I just pretend to be like the masses here??
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
post your favorite fascist>
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
Jack Cover, 88, Physicist Who Invented the Taser Stun Gun, Dies
By BRUCE WEBER
Published: February 16, 2009
Jack Cover, the physicist who invented the Taser stun gun, the police weapon that subdues its targets with jolts of electricity, died Feb. 7 in Mission Viejo, Calif. He was 88 and lived in San Clemente, Calif.
Skip to next paragraph
United Press International
Jack Cover with a model of his invention in September 1975.
The cause was pneumonia brought on by Alzheimer’s disease, said his wife, Ginny.
Mr. Cover (pronounced KOH-ver), who worked as an aerospace scientist and was affiliated with NASA’s Apollo moon landing program, came up with the idea for a nonlethal weapon for use in law enforcement in the 1960s as a response to emergencies in the news, including airplane hijackings.
The scientific inspiration, Ms. Cover said, was a newspaper article about a man who had inadvertently walked into an electrified fence and survived, though he was temporarily immobilized.
“When he read that had happened, he knew an electric current could be used without danger,” Ms. Cover said.
Mr. Cover named his invention as a tribute to another inspiration, the Tom Swift science fiction novels he read as a child, one of which was “Tom Swift and His Electric Rifle.” He created an acronym from “Thomas Swift Electric Rifle,” adding the “A,” he explained to The Washington Post in 1976, “because we got tired of answering the phone ‘T.S.E.R.’ ”
The Taser gun shoots electrified darts connected to the gun by insulated wires, and it works by flooding the target’s body with current, causing uncontrollable muscle contractions.
Small amounts of current are not inherently dangerous, but the safety threshold is not absolute, especially involving people whose heart circuitry has been made vulnerable by drug use or overexertion, common factors among resisting offenders.
Law enforcement agencies generally support the Taser as a worthy tool that protects officers from violent offenders and protects the suspects as well. According to Taser International, founded in 1993, which markets products based on Mr. Cover’s original invention, more than 13,400 law enforcement agencies around the world now use Tasers. More than 375,000 individual officers have them, and so do more than 181,000 private citizens.
From 1976 to 1995, Tasers were considered firearms because the darts were propelled by gunpowder. Approached in 1993 by Taser International, Mr. Cover modified the weapon so that it was powered by compressed nitrogen, allowing Tasers to be freely sold to the public.
The proliferation of Tasers has made them controversial, as their frequent use has led to fears of their overuse. According to Amnesty International, which seeks to have the use of Tasers by private citizens prohibited and use by the police curtailed pending further study, at least 334 people have died since 2001 after being shot with Tasers by police officers.
In a statement sent by e-mail on Friday, a spokesman for Taser International, Steve Tuttle, said, “We stand by the safety of our devices.”
John Higson Cover Jr., known as Jack, was born in New York City on April 6, 1920, and grew up mostly in Chicago, where his father was a professor of economics and his mother earned a master’s degree in mathematics at the University of Chicago. Mr. Cover later earned a B.S. and a Ph.D. in physics there.
He was a scientist at North American Aviation (which later became Rockwell International), a National Aeronautics and Space Administration contractor, and he led the company’s team of researchers working on the Apollo project.
Mr. Cover’s first two marriages ended in divorce. In addition to his wife, he is survived by a son, Steven, of Newport, Wash.; three daughters, Dede Rhodes, also of Newport, Melissa Beckley of Brush Prairie, Wash., and Cathy Cover of Tucson; two stepchildren, Shawn Kerr of San Clemente and Aron Fisher of Menifee, Calif.; 10 grandchildren and five great-grandchildren.
On the issue of Taser safety, Mr. Cover was unwavering.
“He used to say he saved 100,000 lives,” his wife said.
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
can an individual or suspect legally/reasonably be apprehended with a certain level of force, that would obviously depend on multiple criteria, but for example, would it be reasonable to use baton strikes to apprehend a petty shoplifter? a jay walker? someone skateboarding on a sidewalk where it's posted to be illegal? and what about someone walking away from a BASE jump?
Matt, you make a statement about separating crimes such as illegal Base v resisting arrest but make the statement above.
If criminals just comply with the arresting officer there wouldn't be high speed chases, cop shooting perps, beatings, taser use, ETC.
You will have your chance to plead your case but the cops are not the right people to complain too and the heat of the moment is not the time.
Shut up, suck it up that you spend the night in jail, and get the public defender or lawyer.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
that's not my point, obviously.
if someone does not comply in any way, it does not necessarily follow that the use of force is either necessary or allowable, and IF the use of force is allowable in a situation where an individual is non-compliant, the use of a taser ought to be strictly restricted (as should that of a baton) to a situation where 1) all other reasonable options have been exercised, and 2) the subject represents a risk to the physical well being of the officer(s), her/him self, or the public.
absent those criteria, the use of a taser should be illegal, based upon both the physical pain it creates, and the significant risk to the individual being subjected to it's use.
i am not arguing that base jumping is somehow inherently a legal right because it somehow represents freedom, but i would argue that it's closer to jay-walking than to violent crime, or it's closer to riding a bicycle on a trail in yosemite than to drunk driving.
i mean, what is the real idea here?
most good americans agree (as#@&%e fascists notwithstanding) that it's not ok for the USA to torture terrorists (it's certainly illegal, at any rate, even if those laws are apparently not enforced), but somehow the LEO community in this country is given a free pass to essentially torture an individual who is non-compliant, d of other criteria? i find that just amazing, and somewhat obscene.
yes, it diminishes whatever risk might exist for the LEO, but so would shooting the subject dead, and we wouldn't do that, right? (...right?)
MT- your argument would read exactly the same if the argument were shooting the person with rocksalt in the genitals... "shoulda complied, it's your own damn fault, do the crime, do the time...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!