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fresh pow
Boulder climber
phoenix
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:51am PT
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The Gospel of Thomas is my favorite.
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go-B
climber
Sozo
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Apr 19, 2011 - 10:12am PT
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Isaiah 49:18, As I live," declares the LORD
Woo doggie!
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jstan
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
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"Next, the researchers hope to delve deeper by finding out why children behaved well when being watched by Alice: whether it was from fear she would punish them directly, or that she would tell the experimenter."
I think another approach would be to correlate obedience with whether the person telling them about Princess Alice is another child or an adult. It is a three person interaction, Princess Alice being the third.
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Apr 22, 2011 - 10:02am PT
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http://www.christianpost.com/news/belief-in-angry-god-keeps-students-from-cheating-49917/
“The idea that gods used to be more authoritarian vengeful agents is consistent with the idea that … the initial role of religions was to foster moral behavior which made cohesive cooperative societies in a time where there were no secular laws, policing systems,” he noted. “And so the idea of having moral systems and moral regulations outsourced to a punitive agent was a very effective thing in religious societies.”
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Apr 22, 2011 - 10:25am PT
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goodness--agreeing with cintune again. if you would understand religion, study anthropology. societies need sanctions to behavior. for this we have myths, many, many kinds of myth. it's organic. the product of our animal nature--animals have emotions, but probably not quite projected into myths--combined with the extra leaps our cutting-edge nervous systems have developed.
which isn't to say that there is no god.
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Apr 22, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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So then you'd be open to the possibility of the Easter Bunny too?
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Apr 23, 2011 - 11:42am PT
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Message to American Atheists
By CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS - AA CONFERENCE, VIA PHARYNGULA
Added: Friday, 22 April 2011 at 5:08 PM
Dear fellow-unbelievers,
Nothing would have kept me from joining you except the loss of my voice (at least my speaking voice) which in turn is due to a long argument I am currently having with the specter of death. Nobody ever wins this argument, though there are some solid points to be made while the discussion goes on. I have found, as the enemy becomes more familiar, that all the special pleading for salvation, redemption and supernatural deliverance appears even more hollow and artificial to me than it did before. I hope to help defend and pass on the lessons of this for many years to come, but for now I have found my trust better placed in two things: the skill and principle of advanced medical science, and the comradeship of innumerable friends and family, all of them immune to the false consolations of religion. It is these forces among others which will speed the day when humanity emancipates itself from the mind-forged manacles of servility and superstitition. It is our innate solidarity, and not some despotism of the sky, which is the source of our morality and our sense of decency.
That essential sense of decency is outraged every day. Our theocratic enemy is in plain view. Protean in form, it extends from the overt menace of nuclear-armed mullahs to the insidious campaigns to have stultifying pseudo-science taught in American schools. But in the past few years, there have been heartening signs of a genuine and spontaneous resistance to this sinister nonsense: a resistance which repudiates the right of bullies and tyrants to make the absurd claim that they have god on their side. To have had a small part in this resistance has been the greatest honor of my lifetime: the pattern and original of all dictatorship is the surrender of reason to absolutism and the abandonment of critical, objective inquiry. The cheap name for this lethal delusion is religion, and we must learn new ways of combating it in the public sphere, just as we have learned to free ourselves of it in private.
Our weapons are the ironic mind against the literal: the open mind against the credulous; the courageous pursuit of truth against the fearful and abject forces who would set limits to investigation (and who stupidly claim that we already have all the truth we need). Perhaps above all, we affirm life over the cults of death and human sacrifice and are afraid, not of inevitable death, but rather of a human life that is cramped and distorted by the pathetic need to offer mindless adulation, or the dismal belief that the laws of nature respond to wailings and incantations.
As the heirs of a secular revolution, American atheists have a special responsibility to defend and uphold the Constitution that patrols the boundary between Church and State. This, too, is an honor and a privilege. Believe me when I say that I am present with you, even if not corporeally (and only metaphorically in spirit...) Resolve to build up Mr Jefferson's wall of separation. And don't keep the faith.
Sincerely
Christopher Hitchens
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/618232-message-to-american-atheists
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Apr 23, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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None of us should have any problem with the Constitutional separation of Church and State. Works both ways. Keeps those of religious faith (of all persuasions) from controlling government, and it keeps government from controlling the right of all people to have personal faith and to practice their personal faith without any interference or control from government.
You shouldn't close your mind . . .
The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead:
http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Immortality-Modern-Cosmology-Resurrection/dp/0385467990/ref=pd_sim_b_1
The Physics of Christianity:
http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Christianity-Frank-J-Tipler/dp/B003D7JZC6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303565918&sr=8-1
"From Publishers Weekly
The relationship between science and religion has long been a tenuous one. Some have worked to put these disciplines in "dialogue" with each other, while others have dismissed any possibility of a collegial relationship. To his credit, Tipler, professor of mathematical physics at Tulane University, attempts the former. He proposes that Christianity can be studied as a science, and its claims, if true, can be empirically proven. "I believe that we have to accept the implications of physical law, whatever these implications are. If they imply the existence of God, well then, God exists." After a cogent description of modern physics, Tipler embarks on a crusade to prove that God exists, that miracles are physically possible and the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus do not defy scientific laws. The author's arguments are somewhat intriguing—his knowledge of science seems exhaustive and this may attract other scientists to consider the importance of religion. Many of his theological insights, however, are problematic. Christianity a "science" does not automatically make it so, and Tipler seems to dismiss the centuries-old importance of the apophatic tradition in Christianity, that is, approaching the mystical nature of the Divine by positing what cannot be said about God. Tipler's interest in integrating science and religion is noble, but his method is uneven. (May)"
I haven't read it yet but it looks really interesting. Just found out about PhD Tipler recently. Looking into it and his writings.
TEDx Brussels 2010 - Frank Tipler - The Ultimate Future
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNkuJvhyfP0&feature=player_embedded#at=78
http://129.81.170.14/~tipler/wired.html
http://129.81.170.14/~tipler/body.html
Edit:
No matter what. After all the empirical evidence that can help prove the existence of GOD and that Jesus Christ is Emmanuel - GOD with us, the Christ, The Messiah, and he is who he said he is - "I am" the I am, you still must come to GOD through faith. GOD requires this. Faith in the gift of salvation through the Sacrifice and the Blood of Jesus Christ to cover our sins. There is only one way. You can not do anything to earn it. None of us are worthy. But he loves us. It is a gift from GOD. And the gift is paid for. You just have to accept it. And then we can return to GOD and have a relationship with him again.
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but by me." No one can claim this but Jesus Christ.
Happy Easter. GOD lives and his Son Jesus the Christ rose on the 3rd day. Death has no power over him. He is now at the right hand of his Father, to return one day again soon. He gave us the gift to become Children of GOD. Take it.
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go-B
climber
Sozo
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Apr 24, 2011 - 06:25am PT
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Luke 24:6, "He is not here, but He has risen Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:03am PT
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Excerpt from Cintune's timely post of Hitchens:
Our weapons are the ironic mind against the literal: the open mind against the credulous; the courageous pursuit of truth against the fearful and abject forces who would set limits to investigation (and who stupidly claim that we already have all the truth we need). Perhaps above all, we affirm life over the cults of death and human sacrifice and are afraid, not of inevitable death, but rather of a human life that is cramped and distorted by the pathetic need to offer mindless adulation, or the dismal belief that the laws of nature respond to wailings and incantations.
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haystacker
Trad climber
martinez,ca
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Apr 24, 2011 - 12:01pm PT
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The general population is seriously lacking faith.....In themselves
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Apr 24, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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The same people who believe in god believe in the tooth fairy
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Apr 24, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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The Ultimate Easter Quiz
By David Fitzgerald
1. When did Jesus get crucified?
a. At the 3rd Hour (9am), on Friday, the morning of Passover.
b. Shortly after the 6th Hour (noon), on Friday, the day before Passover.
c. He didn’t really get crucified, his identical twin Thomas Didymus did.
d. He didn’t really get crucified, he only appeared to be crucified.
e. We don’t know for sure, since the gospels disagree irreconcilably.
2. What supernatural events occurred at his death?
a. An earthquake hits Jerusalem (actually, two); strong enough to break stones.
b. Supernatural darkness covers all the land.
c. The sacred temple curtain spontaneously rips in half.
d. A mass resurrection of all the Jewish holy men, who crawl out of their graves and appear to many in Jerusalem.
e. All of the above, depending on which Gospel you read.
3. What historical evidence do we have for those supernatural events?
a. Every major ancient writer of the time worldwide mentioned them.
b. Many important writers in Judea discuss them.
c. Several writers in Jerusalem mention them.
d. No one mentions them, but we do have archeological evidence for them.
e. There is not a single lick of evidence for any of them, written or otherwise.
4. How many women went to the tomb?
a. Three: Mary Magdalene, James’ mother and Salome.
b. Two: Mary Magdalene and “the other Mary.”
c. Lots: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, James’ mother Mary and other women.
d. Just one: Mary Magdalene.
e. No way to know, since none of the Gospels agree.
5. What did they find there?
a. A young man, sitting inside the tomb on the right.
b. Two men, standing inside.
c. Two angels sitting on each end of the bed.
d. An armed guard of Roman soldiers standing watch, when suddenly a great earthquake occurs, and an angel descends from heaven, his face blazing like lightning and his clothing white as snow; the Roman guards are utterly terrified and all faint dead away; the angel rolls away the stone and sits on it.
e. No way to know, since none of the Gospels agree.
6. What happened after the visit to the tomb?
a. The women ran away in terror and never told anyone what they saw.
b. Jesus appears, is initially mistaken for the gardener, and then is tenderly reunited with Mary.
c. The women tell the disciples, who don’t believe them.
d. Peter runs and beats everyone to the tomb; or possibly gets beaten by one of the other disciples.
e. No way to know, since none of the Gospels agree.
7. Where/when did the risen Jesus first appear to the disciples?
a. On a mountain in the Galilee (60-100 miles from Jerusalem), just as the angel told them he would.
b. We don’t know; we aren’t told anything after the women run from the tomb.
c. He appears to two followers (not disciples) on the road to Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem)
d. He materializes in a locked room in Jerusalem as the disciples are at dinner.
e. No way to know, since none of the Gospels agree.
8. When/Where did Jesus ascend back to heaven?
a. Jesus returns to heaven on the same day he arose, right after dinner, from a room in Jerusalem.
b. We don’t know exactly, but it’s at least 8 days after the resurrection, when the despondent apostles have gone back to being fishermen on the sea of Tiberias.
c. After his resurrection, Jesus spends at least 40 days of teaching his disciples in Jerusalem before ascending to heaven from the Mt. of Olives.
d. Jesus didn’t ascend into heaven; he met his disciples in the mountains of Galilee and told them he would be with them always.
e. We don’t really know; Luke is the only gospel writer who actually mentions the ascension.
9. Who wrote these gospels, anyway?
a. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John – I mean, come on, it says so right there.
b. Actually, none of the gospels even claim to be written by eyewitnesses – all were originally anonymous and written at least a generation later.
c. Well, it’s more like the end of first century for Mark and sometime in the early to mid 2nd century for the others, if you must know.
d. Hold on – Not only that, but Matthew and Luke just reworked Mark gospel, adding their own material and tweaking Mark’s text to better fit what they thought it should say.
e. Get this – if all that weren’t enough, all the Gospels have been edited and added to by later editors, and for the first 200 – 300 years, we have no way to determine how faithfully the originals were preserved.
10. Where does the word “Easter” come from?
a. From the Aramaic word for Passover.
b. It originally was “Eastern Holiday” – referring to the Passover celebrated by Jews in the eastern part of the Roman empire.
c. From est ova, Latin for “Where are the eggs?”
d. From an ancient Celtic pun that means both “Bunnies” and “Chocolate.”
e. from Eastre/Eostre, the pagan Goddess of Spring.
Answers in the back of the book:
http://www.skepticmoney.com/the-ultimate-easter-quiz-jesus-gets-nailed/
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2011 - 09:05pm PT
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But the puddle always returns ......
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2011 - 09:17pm PT
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so very, very deep
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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If Jesus is the lord of all nature, could one of you Christians ask him to lay off of the tsunamis, the cancer, the heart disease for a while. I mean, good grief, two or three million years of death and destruction is enough already, don't you think? And, yes, it's good to think... Whaddya imagine god gave you a brain for? Speculation is liberating!
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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If nature is but a thorny manifestation of original sin, then how does one discern God in nature?
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