Mosque to be built at ground zero

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Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Aug 19, 2010 - 03:33pm PT

skipt,

there is no sewer, water or power in the bc......yet.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Aug 19, 2010 - 03:42pm PT

Here, the truth about the Republican smear and fear campaign towards the Mosque at ground zero. (sorry if this has already been posted, but Keith Olbermann blows their manipulative cover.)These are the same tactics that got us into Iraq, murdered thousands of our soldiers and innocent people, raped the national treasury and made the industrial war machine filthy rich. They are at it again. The worst enemy to America are the Republicans.

http://vodpod.com/watch/4246079-keith-olbermann-special-comment-there-is-no-ground-zero-mosque-081610

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Aug 19, 2010 - 03:50pm PT

Does anyone understand what Skipty is trying to say?

And Fats, your irrelevance is remarkable.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Aug 19, 2010 - 03:52pm PT

I would vote to keep this church out of the back country too.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_us/us_church_sept11_quran_burning

Officials in a Florida city have denied a burn permit for a church that is seeking to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

I am beginning to think some people don't understand the difference between private property and public land.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 19, 2010 - 04:38pm PT

How many mosques in the US have, in the last decade, been denied needed zoning and permits, simply because they were mosques rather than temples, synagogues, or churches?

krahmes

Social climber

Stumptown

Aug 19, 2010 - 04:38pm PT

You know I lived about 2.5 years across the street from a village mosque in West Java. I’m not very religious and found Islam to be coercive and judgmental far beyond modern Christianity, Buddhism, or Hinduism.

Once when I was pissing out my ass and burning with fever for a three day stretch; the AM/PM caterwaul about drove me out of my head; I would’ve taken a rocket launcher to that place, if I’d had one. I’ve heard the call to prayer likened to church bells; it’s a lie.

Muslim ritualistic fetishes, as Hemingway and Burton, noted can lead the followers of Islam to a false (at least to my West Civ educated mind) sense of superiority which when they are shown to be less in station (or to be a fool) often turns to a sullen, brooding anger. We see a lesser version of this in the Christian right.

When the revolution finally came in 1998 they burned the few churches in Garut and Tasik and mobbed the 3-4 generation Indo-Chinese maybe because of their race, but more for their religion; it certainly must’ve have been the justification.

I can boil this war down to Hegelian notions about religion on their side and the control of the oil supply on ours. The only thing that really surprised me on 911 was that it wasn’t a nuke.

This group has the right to build a mosque near the 911 WTC site, but they’ve earned my scorn with their lack of cultural sensitivity. If I heard from the Imam that he supported religious and ideologically freedom (including the right for any religion or atheists to proselytize) anywhere in the world including the Arab peninsula he’d get my support; be he won’t. So for my part I’ll let him turn and twist in the wind from the likes of Fox News.

I mean this is America people- land of Waco, Rajneeshpuram, pervasive anti-Semitism and anti-Catholicism prior to World War II, and really how did the Mormons end up in Salt Lake City. You can draw bloody trail from Cromwell’s sword to the Winthrop’s, “City on Hill” to the neo-Capitalism Evangelicals of today. It all works out; or it doesn’t.

Bemused to see the irreligious alternet.org crowd rise to the defense to this pathetic excuse for a religion which even Joseph Campbell seemed have trouble praising, perhaps you all believe the Buddha of Bamyan will reconstitute itself. Even more bemused to see the race card, the xenophobe fear of the other trotted out as insults; a mirror really to your hates, fears, and bigotries.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Aug 19, 2010 - 04:39pm PT

Getting denied a burn permit is NOT a religious issue.

i dunno, if you were one of those radical muslims who was gonna burn yoself and was denied the permit it could be...

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 19, 2010 - 04:42pm PT

From that stripper link

"After the World Trade Center towers fell, a stripper named Chris went to volunteer in the recovery effort for the Red Cross. Nearly 10 years later, she dances just down the street from Ground Zero at the Pussycat Lounge.

Thousands of workers spend their days toiling in the neighborhood around the World Trade Center site, a space that had gained renewed national attention amid controversial plans to build an Islamic center there.

The project, known as Park51, is opposed by a majority of New York City residents in recent opinion polls. Politicians both local and national argue that the plan is insensitive to families touched by the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, among others, has referred to the area around Ground Zero as “hallowed ground.”

I can't believe they don't close the strip clubs on hallowed ground. Don't folks know that the 9-11 hijackers went to strip clubs before they hijacked the planes!!!!

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber

San Francisco, Ca

Aug 19, 2010 - 04:45pm PT

This is the biggest tempest in a teapot since Terri Schrivo.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Aug 19, 2010 - 05:03pm PT

Bemused to see the irreligious alternet.org crowd rise to the defense to this pathetic excuse for a religion which even Joseph Campbell seemed have trouble praising

You're kind of missing the point with that observation. While your post provides several instances of the public's intolerance of religion, you commit the same error with that comment.

It doesn't matter what you think of the religion. The issue is, in a country where religious freedom is guaranteed by the Constitution, why has this become such a big issue were it not for the fact that lots of Americans hate Muslims.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 19, 2010 - 05:07pm PT

From

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/19/poll-only-a-third-of-americans-say-obama-is-christian-almost-one-in-five-say-hes-muslim/?hpt=Sbin

"A substantial and growing chunk of the country believes that President Obama, a self-described Christian, is Muslim, while only about a third of Americans are able to correctly identify his religion, according to a survey released Thursday.

Nearly one in five Americans believe Obama is a Muslim, up from around one in 10 Americans who said he was Muslim last year, according to the survey, conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

While most of those who think Obama is Muslim are Republicans, the number of independents who believe he is Muslim has expanded significantly, from 10 percent last year to 18 percent now..."

WHat kind of journalism is practiced in this country and how stupid are we when 1 in 5 people think Obama is a Muslim and only 1-3 know he's a christian.

How can we continue to call ourselves the greatest country and expect things to stay prosperous when we don't give a sh#t and let ourselves be lied to and manipulated

Peace

Karl

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Aug 19, 2010 - 05:16pm PT

The issue is, in a country where religious freedom is guaranteed by the Constitution, why has this become such a big issue were it not for the fact that lots of Americans hate Muslims

strange thing is how the same right wingers will attack anyone outside the norm, even themselves. case in point, Mitt Romney a mormon. when he was running for GOP presidential nominee the other nominees were bringing up his religion as detriment for a presidential candidate. funny thing is the mormons are all right wingers and take that crap. stranger still, they forget that it is this right to practice religion that gives all fringe religions the right to practice their religion. makes my head explode

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 19, 2010 - 06:16pm PT

I suppose this is all appropriate given the intolerance and bigotry of the indignant right mirrors that of a lot of conservative and fundamental muslims.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Aug 19, 2010 - 06:35pm PT

I suppose this is all appropriate given the intolerance and bigotry of the indignant right mirrors that of a lot of conservative and fundamental muslims.

Absolutely. Orthodoxy in its various manifestations usually displays a remarkable intolerance for other points of view. The problem gets even worse when you have those who are politically motivated who use a religious idiom to spread their message. The Taliban are genuinely interested in imposing Sharia law to maintain political power. Conservative evangelicals in this country want to vote into office individuals who will force schoolchildren to pray their prayers and to study their notions of "biblical" science.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 19, 2010 - 06:36pm PT

We used to think that 666 posts was a big thread. They would take weeks to build up.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Aug 19, 2010 - 06:59pm PT

Well Skipt then what's your take on the Jewish historical center being built atop one of the most significant and ancient Palestinian grave yards?

Goose? Gander? What's your righteous take?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Aug 19, 2010 - 07:52pm PT

When the issue first came into the news I really didn’t care much either way even though I have a close relative who worked at Cantor Fitzgerald (658 employees killed) who took a sick day on 9-11 after partying too hard at my Dad’s birthday party and even though one of my father’s best friends, the manager of the Windows on the World restaurant atop the towers was killed.

I took the position in favor of religious freedom and that was that. But my feelings on this thing have changed largely due to the behavior of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He professes to be a bridge builder, that the purpose of his Islamic Center is outreach. Yet a great majority of the people he wants to reach out to are offended by his plans. It seems to me that a seeker of peace and brotherhood, upon realizing his efforts were causing great offense, would rethink his plans and accept the offers to help find a more appropriate location. But he has dug in his heels. This is what changes everything for me. His behavior is more that of a warrior than a peacemaker.

Legally he can build his center but I sincerely wish he would not.

A side story: The old Burlington Coat Factory building, about half of the land to be developed was worth as much as 18 million until the landing gear from United flight 175 fell through the roof damaging the structure and leaving the building abandoned until today. Recently the Muslim run Soho Properties bought the building for 4.85 million cash, so the folks building the Mosque got a sweet deal on the property thanks to the 9-11 attacks.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Aug 19, 2010 - 07:55pm PT

Weschrist writes:

"Put blurring, chaz, cornhole chomper, and other right wing Christian nut jobs in there with the Islamic Extremists"

Hey! Don't lump me in with that crew. I'm not even Christian.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Aug 19, 2010 - 08:02pm PT

A side story: The old Burlington Coat Factory building, about half of the land to be developed was worth as much as 18 million until the landing gear from United flight 175 fell through the roof damaging the structure and leaving the building abandoned until today. Recently the Muslim run Soho Properties bought the building for 4.85 million cash, so the folks building the Mosque got a sweet deal on the property thanks to the 9-11 attacks.

Yeah, I heard that too, Kris. And that also makes that building part of 'ground zero' even nobody was killed there...