Have you ever had a Bigfoot encounter ?

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 15, 2014 - 10:50am PT

I have a bigfoot encounter (size 12) every time I put my shoes on.

Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber

Costa mesa

Mar 15, 2014 - 01:37pm PT

I have a bigfoot encounter ! every time I put my own foot in my mouth !!!!!seen often !!!???

Norwegian

Trad climber

dancin on the tip of god's middle finger

Mar 15, 2014 - 04:47pm PT

was there any weed in the plane?

Srbphoto

climber

Kennewick wa

Aug 25, 2014 - 09:36pm PT

Here is an update about Kennewick Man. A new book is coming out about him.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2014/08/25/3120636_scientists-kennewick-man-might.html?sp=/99/177/&rh=1

The mysterious Kennewick Man, who died 9,000 years ago in the Columbia River Valley, was a seal hunter who rambled far and wide with a projectile point lodged in his hip, five broken ribs that never healed properly, two small dents in his skull and a bum shoulder from the repetitive stress of throwing spears.

He came from somewhere far away, far up the Pacific Northwest coast, possibly Alaska or the Aleutian Islands. He might even have come to North America all the way from Asia.

That’s the argument of the editors of a new, 688-page, peer-reviewed book, “Kennewick Man: The Scientific Investigation of an Ancient American Skeleton,” that will be published this fall by Texas A&M University Press.

Scientists have told their story of Kennewick Man before in lectures and interviews, but the new book represents the most detailed account of research that came about only after scientists sued for access to the bones. The Army of Corps of Engineers, which has custody of the bones, had pressed the scientists to publish their research. Now it has finally arrived, in a volume as thick and heavy as a textbook.

“Kennewick Man could not have been a longtime resident of the area where he was found, but instead lived most of his adult life somewhere along the Northwest and North Pacific coast where marine mammals were readily available,” the concluding chapter of the book states.

“He could have been an Asian,” said co-editor Richard Jantz, emeritus professor of anthropology at the University of Tennessee. “One of the things we always tend to do is underestimate the mobility of early people.”

His co-editor, Douglas Owsley, a forensic anthropologist at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History, agrees with that assessment of Kennewick Man: “He was a long-distance traveler.”

The book includes many kinds of research on the skeleton, which was discovered in 1996, and its environment, but the chemical analysis of the molecular isotopes in the bones and the clues they provide to Kennewick Man’s originare likely to be among the most heavily debated findings.

The analysis suggests that Kennewick Man lived off a diet of seals and other large marine mammals and drank glacier-melt water. His wide-set body is akin to what is generally seen in cold-adapted human populations. The book includes a vintage photograph of an Inuit seal hunter on an ice floe in Alaska — a suggested analog to Kennewick Man’s lifestyle.

The origin of Kennewick Man is relevant to the future disposition of his bones. Native American tribes have claimed him as one of their ancestors and have sought to rebury the remains in keeping with their customs. The scientists argued that there is no evidence linking any of today’s tribes to the skeleton.

They say that Kennewick Man’s skull, which is large and narrow with a projecting face, doesn’t look like the skulls of later Native Americans. This has been noted in other skulls from that era, including that of a teenage girl found in a submerged cave in Mexico, and the skull of a man found in the Channel Islands off the coast of California.

The dimensions of Kennewick Man’s skull most closely match those of Polynesians, specifically the inhabitants of the Chatham Islands, near New Zealand, the scientists say.

He wasn’t himself a Polynesian, however. Rather, according to the scientists, Kennewick Man and today’s Polynesians, as well as the prehistoric Jomon people and contemporary Ainu people of northern Japan, have a common ancestry among a coastal Asian population.

These were hunters of marine creatures and could have followed the edge of the ice around the northern rim of the Pacific Ocean, harvesting seals and using primitive watercraft to travel long distances, Owsley said.

“This is like a highway,” Owsley said of the coastal route of migration. “People are going from the Old World to the New World and back and forth.”

He said of Kennewick Man, “His morphology is what people look like in the Upper Paleolithic period along that whole circ#m-Pacific expanse.”

The heft of the volume and the confidence of Owsley and his co-authors in their interpretation of Kennewick Man is unlikely to end debate over who this ancient person was and how he was related to other Paleoamericans and Native Americans alive today.

The Corps of Engineers has legal custody of the skeleton because it was found on federal land. The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act requires that unearthed bones be returned to tribes for reburial. But scientists sued to gain access to the bones, and a federal court in 2004 ruled in their favor, saying NAGPRA did not apply to Kennewick Man. Owsley said the scientists were allowed to study the bones for 16 days in 2005 and 2006.

Gail Celmer, a regional archeologist with the northwest division of the Corps of Engineers, said the corps will review the book and “see if there’s anything in there that changes how we’re curating the remains.”

She said she doubted it would end the debate over the bones.

“I don’t think it will ever settle the debate. People have different views about what NAGPRA actually is and how it’s defined.”

Two teenagers sneaking into a boat race originally saw the bones and notified authorities. The local coroner asked for assistance from a forensic anthropologist, James Chatters, who at first thought, based on the shape of the skull, that he was looking at the remains of an early pioneer. But tests on the spear point indicated that these were prehistoric remains.

Chatters excavated more than 300 bones, making Kennewick Man one of the most complete skeletons from that era.

In the legal fight, the scientists won the right to do a limited amount of research, starting in 2005, but until now they have not presented their full findings.

Three of the papers list Chatters as an author, but he does not sign on to the view that Kennewick Man came from somewhere far away.

“If he’s an eater of seals, he’s in the wrong position,” Chatters said. He said Kennewick Man is more than 100 miles from the nearest seal.

He also believes the spear point in his hip comes from somewhere not too far away.

“It’s a serrated edge, leaf-shaped point, of a style known as a Cascade point,” Chatters said.

Owsley said he and Chatters have agreed to disagree on some of these issues.

The ramblin’ man hypothesis will be viewed as a boost for the controversial idea that the Americas were peopled in multiple migrations by disparate populations — some moving on foot, some rowing or paddling along the coast.

The more orthodox view is that people from northeast Asia walked to the Americas during the Ice Age when sea levels were so low that the Bering Strait was dry land. Genetic evidence points to a common ancestry among Native Americans to a population that remained isolated for a long period of time in the now-drowned land known as Beringia, and that then migrated, possibly in several pulses, after the ice sheets covering much of North America began to recede and an ice-free corridor opened in the center of the continent.

Deborah A. Bolnick, an anthropological geneticist at the University of Texas, said that all Native Americans studied so far show markers, in their mitochondrial DNA, of a common ancestry with people who lived in Beringia. She said it is therefore reasonable to suppose that Kennewick Man is also descended from that population.

Genetic testing on Kennewick Man is being conducted in Denmark, and those results are eagerly awaited and could alter the scientific narrative yet again.

One issue that remains fuzzy is Kennewick Man’s age at his death. Owsley said he appeared to be about 40, but further testing, if permitted, would help pin that down. He argues that scientists should have further access to the skeleton, which for now is held in the Burke Museum at the University of Washington.

“I’m trying to honestly ensure that another generation of scientists has the opportunity to study this skeleton. They’re going to have technology that we don’t have,” Owsley said in an interview.

And there will always be additional questions. Did he have a mate? Children? A clan?

Chatters said he probably lived in a band of 20 to 40 people.

And he surely was a strong man, able to endure pain from myriad injuries and the challenges of life as a hunter, Chatters said. His survival from a serious injury — the embedded spear point in hip — seems to suggest something.

“He was injured severely enough when he was young that somebody took very good care of him,” Chatters said.

couchmaster

climber

Aug 26, 2014 - 06:11am PT

Was't kenniwick man @ 5' tall? Not bigfoot. Wrong thread for that article, but I thank you for posting it. I thought this was a striking sentence from your article:

"The dimensions of Kennewick Man’s skull most closely match those of Polynesians, specifically the inhabitants of the Chatham Islands, near New Zealand, the scientists say.

He wasn’t himself a Polynesian, however. Rather, according to the scientists, Kennewick Man and today’s Polynesians, as well as the prehistoric Jomon people and contemporary Ainu people of northern Japan, have a common ancestry among a coastal Asian population."

Srbphoto

climber

Kennewick wa

Aug 26, 2014 - 06:43am PT

Was't kenniwick man @ 5' tall? Not bigfoot. Wrong thread for that article, but I thank you for posting it. I thought this was a striking sentence:

Does size matter though? I think discussing the orang pendek of Indonesia would be entirely appropriate on a bigfoot thread.

This subject became a tangent of this thread so I have continued posting updates on here instead of creating it's own thread.

Jan

Mountain climber

Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa

Aug 26, 2014 - 07:17am PT

Yes, thank you for the Kennewick posts and the latest up to date information.

Kennewick man entered this discussion because there was speculation that some of the Big Foot stories originated with different types of humans visiting the Pacific Northwest. Now a Viking boat has been discovered outside of Memphis and it has been revealed that both Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians have legends about fighting red giants. Perhaps they made it to the Pacific Northwest as well.

I would add that the September issue of Scientific American has a whole issue on human evolution which takes into consideration other ancient primates also.

As for Big Foot and the Yeti, Bryan Sykes of Oxford University has conducted DNA studies on samples off all the Big Foot and Yeti remains he could find and they were of several different animals, but mostly a previously unknown Asian bear which is a hybrid of extinct brown bears and polar bears which could certainly explain the reddish fur.

He has also recently done a study of a tall woman with reddish fur all over her body who was found in Russia in 1850 and had several children by Russian men. He says her DNA is sapiens originally from South Africa. Now the question is whether she was a mutant or represents an unknown population. So stay tuned, we are slowly finding out the truth and it is more complex and interesting than we could imagine.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 26, 2014 - 07:18am PT

Everytime I put on and take off my shoes....also when I cut my toe nails.

PhilG

Trad climber

The Circuit, Tonasket WA

Aug 26, 2014 - 08:02am PT

Jan,
would you agree that if there was a "Bigfoot" that she/he would have to exist (as other animals do) within a population of it's own kind? In other words, there would be young ones, adults, old bigfeet close to death, pregnant females, reckless teenagers. Although an individual might be able to hide and avoid detection, a population would (sooner or later) be detected. An older Bigfoot with Alzheimer might have a difficult time hiding? Sooner or later we would have to find some remains?

Gunkie

Trad climber

East Coast US

Aug 26, 2014 - 10:13am PT

Does size matter though?

That's what he said.

Yes...

That's what she thought.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 26, 2014 - 10:20am PT

Phil, Bigfoot, Yetis and Nellie have all develope a unique evolutionary response to death....they atomize.

Jan

Mountain climber

Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa

Aug 26, 2014 - 10:48am PT

PhilG-

Populations would certainly have been necessary in the past, but if we are looking at just a few surviving individuals in the present, then that could explain rarity of sitings. There were multigenerational groups of undiscovered runaway slaves who hid out in the Great Dismal Swamp bordering Virginia and North Carolina until after the Civil War. Then there's Ishi, the last Yahi Indian who was captured near Oroville, California as late as 1911.

I am also thinking of my Sherpa village of Rolwaling which had numerous yeti sitings in the past but none for some years now. I personally think they were seeing the hybrid bears which occasionally crossed over from uninhabited areas of Tibet. I believe they are no longer seen because the Chinese patrols on that side have pretty much eliminated the wildlife in the past 60 years.

If there are populations, the heavily forested mountains of eastern Nepal and especially the Assam area of India would be the place to look as well as western Burma and southwestern China. The tropical rain forest is impenetrable to modern humans in some of those areas still.

Keep in mind also, that in the remote regions where they are reported, human populations are scarce and the people are pre-scientific. They are afraid of these animals which many believe to be shape shifting spirits, and so they are not looking for bones or scat as modern scientists would. If they saw any they would run away as fast as they could.

And of course scared to death humans often exaggerate what they saw. One yeti that threw rocks at people in southwestern China was tracked down by Chinese scientists and found to be a golden macaque - a 3 foot high monkey that had been described as 6 ft. high by those it threw rocks at.

PhilG

Trad climber

The Circuit, Tonasket WA

Aug 26, 2014 - 11:35am PT

Jan,
Thank-you for your thought provoking response.
Also, your up-thread comment about human evolution: "we are slowly finding out the truth and it is more complex and interesting than we could imagine" certainly rings true. The more I read about the fascinating story of how we got here (and especially the recent scientific discoveries) I've become more interested to learn.

climbski2

Mountain climber

Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Aug 26, 2014 - 01:07pm PT

They are a form of human, not ape.

lol

Srbphoto

climber

Kennewick wa

Sep 28, 2014 - 07:43am PT

you still have time after the Facelift to recharge and head to Yakima for the Yakima Bigfoot Roundup!

http://yakimavalleymuseum.org/special/Sasquatch/bigfootroundup.cfm