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Afghani
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2009 - 12:15am PT
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Yea, it might be nice one day to find some virgin rock and do something original. Once again, not to brag or feel pride or make history, but you know...just to know this rock's never been sent. It's virgin and I got to break 'er in ;)
Pate, I have no idea which route you're talking about but my first route in the Valley was Oak Tree Flake LOL. I did Jam Crack which was 5.9 but I only did the first pitch which is 5.7. Bishop's Terrace is 5.8 as far as I know. I tell you what, I'll go lead a 5.9/10 and then let you know afterward. And before I go climbing 10-20 pitch high sierra or rocky mountain or whatever else that's never been sent, I'd better break in my one partner first. She's a bit timid, so it may take a while. And where's Granite mountain, in CO? Am I missing something?
Southern Yosemite sounds fun, I'm sure I'll get out there eventually. But by then I'm sure a lot of routes will have been put up.
I think every person enjoys a certain amount of appreciate for history of anything. If you don't then you don't understand your roots, whatever they are. You're also going to be a bit ignorant when it comes to understanding why things are the way they are. Best part is being able to hear about it from the legends. Jay's probably right that I'm misconceiving this rift, maybe it's just from a few of the badboy climber vids I've watched. Or maybe it's my limited experience in climbing.
I am just trying to stir some conversation. It's interesting to hear others points of view and get yelled at by Werner (sorry I cut you off in my car back at Facelift in September, man! It was the driver's fault in front of me.)
But driving 3000 miles for a concert, Pate? The Dead? That must have been some good acid to go straight through!
A lot of good stories from everyone, by the way. Does it get old repeating these stories or does it get old being asked questions like these from quasi-noobs? I'd hate to talk too much about climbing, history of climbing or the climbers themselves if it does get overplayed at times. God forbid, though.
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Oct 27, 2009 - 12:40am PT
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coffee cup drool, man that's nothin...just wait.
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Oct 27, 2009 - 12:56am PT
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I think the thing is more about trad or sport. From ground up. Or from the top down. More than new school or old school. It's about Style more than age. this is nothing new just part of the ride.In the end it’s about what you want to do, and how you want to do it.
Dogtown.
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Afghani
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2009 - 01:29am PT
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Lol!! I was getting to it.
It depends on whether she's a moped or a ducati, er I meant a 5.6 or a 5.15XR.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Oct 27, 2009 - 01:37am PT
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You could climb something that might not be there the week after
like this old school knucklehead. That way you don't have to
worry about ratings.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 27, 2009 - 01:51am PT
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Largo, Ron, and Werner called it.
The pioneers of Old were the Young arrogant hotshots of their time. That's the way it rolls when you're that good.
The generation gap is less than it ever was and Old skool is getting far more respect now that Old School got when the stonemasters ruled the rock.
This dissing of the youth is the classic sign of middle age (and I'm that old too) Sorry to break it to you!
You know, we used to walk 5 miles to school in the snow but the kids now get on a bus kinda talk.
You know...All kids think about these days is Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll!! What ever happened to reverence for Wine, Women and Song.
Same as it ever was, meet the new punks, same as the old punks
;-)
Karl
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Oct 27, 2009 - 10:14am PT
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Climbing ice without tools - that's pretty rad. Must be hard to hold onto the Scotch bottle afterwards.
From what I've read here, someone should go get the second first ascent of Solid Gold in JT.
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hooblie
climber
"i used to care, but things have changed"
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Oct 27, 2009 - 10:16am PT
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the seed of this particular thread was a suggestion that some history be read, after a bit of spray in the presence of the establishment. sails were trimmed and a serious approach to the topic got framed as if a dicotomy was inherent. my current thinking is that the old vs. new was an accidental red herring. the bait should have been declined. the tipping point was the quite defendable case for continuity.
this business of knowing your context by opening your eyes to history is an old saw, and it has two handles. it can be pushed or pulled, and i think it cuts better from the other side. the flipside of contextual awareness, might be, ...abject oblivion. ...hey, avoid it.
the noob like exuberence, the crowing about fast results and great expectations, lacking in the protocol of cool, has many a precedent i'm sure. continuity after all. it's the scope of our participation, given the effect of the web that is novel. kudos to OP for fortitude.
what if the suggestion had been whispered in the ear of the plebe, not so much that it's important to know history and thereby gain respect across the divide, but rather it's corollary. that it lacks cool to operate in such a vacuum, where personal centrism fills the room, and the effect is exclusionary, can be seen as disrespectful in the presence of your antecedents. i'd venture most of whom
enjoyed this right of passage to the amusement of just a few close friends.
the joke comes to mind about an old bull on a hill, and a brand new bull hopping up and down, breathlessly pointing out the cows
down in the meadow. young bull, uncontainable, blurts out "let's run down there and exploit one." old bull finishes chewing his cud, slowly turns and grumbles "let's walk down there and exploit them all." ~~~ if ya squint, you can just make out the continuity
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Afghani
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
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I like what Chim said. It's not just about difficulty. It's about style and aesthetics. You can climb some hard ass routes and say you are a badass climber but if you can't do it with some style and aesthetic beauty then you're missing the point of climbing.
And I guess what all the old timers are trying to tell me is that...it's a continual continuum. What's new, becomes old and what's old becomes older. I guess I can kind of relate that to my taste in music these days.
Like seriously, wtf is up with Punk Emo music?? Why are all these kids running around looking like goth kids merged with psycho ward patients? I swear, if I ever saw an Emo rock climber, I'd quit the sport and probably kick the kid's ass.
Anyway, I digress. Climbing is really an art form. And in that art is a lot of history. I think the message is sort of, "It's cool to know, but not required. As long as you give the rock and the environment some respect and love to climb, you should be A-Ok."
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Oct 27, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
 Georges Santayana
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 27, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
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Shortcomings? You are the one who wants to add Futuristic Little Utility Bolts (that's FLUB's) whenever you start getting jumpy! And besides you are an old crusty POS yourself aren't ya?!?
Edit- so it is a wrinkle density affair then? The toothless old tykes of tomorrow were the tigers of yesterday, as Patey once said.
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Afghani
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
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Nice send!
That's skill, there. I have to admit I wish I could do that. I need to start bouldering and hard climbing
Stuff like this inspires me to start
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlcQ3mxlNfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McHosr_98r0
So, I guess this is where I sort of see the divide between old school, like Warren Harding old and new school Sonnie Trotter and Chris Sharma.
The Stonemasters really changed the sport, I think. They just wanted to climb. At least that's what I think IMHO.
Edit: By changed the sport, I mean they took it to the next level. Not necessarily discounting what the founders did because they're responsible for rock climbing as a whole. I learned that after watching the movie First Ascent.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 27, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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Give them some EBs and see what they climb?
They should BE so lucky!
I say give 'em kronhaufers.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Oct 27, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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uhm... there's no distinction... "they" are all climbers.... does it matter when they climbed?
not sure..
but cheers anyway
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Oct 27, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
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"I swear, if I ever saw an Emo rock climber, I'd quit the sport and probably kick the kid's ass."
Heh. Some of those emo kids climb pretty damn hard...You may want to take the Legrand advice of "if you aren't climbing, learn by watching" ..or you could quit...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Oct 27, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
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When are you old people going to stop blaming your short comings on the frickin EB's?
EB's? Heck, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I got some Robbins boots!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Oct 27, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
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To BE, or not to EB. That is the question.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Oct 27, 2009 - 09:06pm PT
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And those E Germans were climbing barefoot before he was born.
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