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BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:28am PT
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Last year did that hike on a rest day. Little bastard, unsuppervised, child swung on the chains hitting me in the shins and almost launched me off. Kids should not in any way shape or form be up there without an adult up their ass on the chains.
Shawn
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 11, 2009 - 01:09am PT
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wow, the comments on that article were INTELLIGENT! way above the idiotic drivel on sfgate... who'da'thunk?
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Burt
Trad climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Aug 11, 2009 - 04:54am PT
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its sad that they are falling off the trail and god bless their families but the real danger is the rocks they throw! I can't count how many times near misses have happened on Angels Landing from the tourons throwing rocks off the cliff. I have had an impact to the head and once a rope chopped on Ball and Chain while working the free ascent by a thrown rock. They need a sign telling all to stay clear of the edge and nothing gets launched over the side. If PS was any more to the right we would have already had a fatality due to rock throws.
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NFB
Mountain climber
Wilson, Wyoming
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Ron,
Regulation, permits, oversight will lead to increased liability on the part of the park which would lead to decreased freedom for us. I know you want to be king of Zion... I'd rather pay my $80/yr rent (cheap at twice the price) to the Feds, they have a lot more money to run the place.
JHMR (ski area in Jackson) used to have a closed boundary policy at the ski area here in Wyoming. They wised up and released thier liability with regard to this by opening boundaries to our national forest and national park. By abandoning the policing of the area boundary, they released responsiblity to the individual skiier. Brilliant. I'm almost certain this was a risk management decision influenced by logical legal advice.
I have many close friends who litigate personal injury cases. I guarantee that they would never take a case involving a hiker who died in a national park. The federal government has absolute immunity from personal injury lawsuits, unless one can prove intentional, willful negligence. If a ranger put vaseline all over the exposed parts of the angels trail, hoping to cause a slip over the edge, there would be a case. Otherwise, no lawsuit would ever make it past summary judgement, and certainly not past a Supreme court appeal. End of story.
When a party of idiots (like me) rolls up to climb El Cap, there is no permit, no regulation, no nothing. Just us making the decision to put ourselves in harms way. Amazing, the Feds have got it right there. They leave us up to our own devices. I hope it stays this way forever. Try suing the feds for a rain storm on the Captain. No sane lawyer would ever take the case, I guarantee it. Any insane lawyer who tries will end up wasting money and time. Basically a bad business decision.
My condolences to the family of the deceased hiker.
If any NPS employee is reading, thanks for maintinaing our parks.
Nate Brown
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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
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Well said Nate.
More regulation is not the answer.
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OldEric
Trad climber
Westboro, MA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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Bingo - Nate's got it right.
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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"When a party of idiots (like me) rolls up to climb El Cap, there is no permit, no regulation, no nothing. Just us making the decision to put ourselves in harms way. Amazing, the Feds have got it right there. They leave us up to our own devices. I hope it stays this way forever. Try suing the feds for a rain storm on the Captain. No sane lawyer would ever take the case, I guarantee it. Any insane lawyer who tries will end up wasting money and time. Basically a bad business decision."
Or for a toilet that seems to leak, allegedly causing a rockslide ?
TS
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samg
Trad climber
SLC
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Aug 12, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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I hiked Angel's Landing several times as a kid with my family.
I don't like the derogatory remarks regarding children. My memories of being there as a child are something special.
At no time did I feel out of my element. I felt the exposure, sure, and I knew every time I went up there that if I screwed up I would die. But it was a blast!
I'm happy that my parents had enough confidence in me to let me hike Angel's Landing, unsupervised at times no less. They knew how capable I was after hundreds of hikes in different places.
And I'll tell you- I was scared, just like now, at the cluelessness and bad behavior of some of the people up there. I'm talking about adults and children both, and the inevitable boy scout troops.
In any case, blanket statements about people, including children are a little off-putting for me. I would have chafed terribly under supervision, because I didn't need it and knew it. It would have ruined things. Kids are not always clueless. Far from it.
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Aug 12, 2009 - 03:56pm PT
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NPS morning report 8/12
Zion National Park (UT)
Woman Falls To Her Death From Angels Landing
Nancy Maltez, 55, of Glendora, California, fell about a thousand feet to her death on the morning of Sunday, August 9th. Maltez was hiking with her family when she fell from the north side of Angels Landing, a popular hiking destination in the park. The fall was first reported via a 911 call from another hiker’s cell phone. A St. George Police dispatcher received the call and notified the park. Rangers responded to Angels Landing while a park search and rescue team was mobilized and sent to the location to begin a search for the victim. The woman’s body was located on a steep, rugged, talus slope at the base of Angels Landing below the saddle area between Angels Landing and Scout Lookout. Two big wall climbers half way up a route below Angels Landing also witnessed the fall, as the victim fell dangerously close to their porta-ledge. A technical recovery was required to bring her body down to the floor of Zion Canyon. A rappel along the fall line was also performed to look for additional evidence along the cliff face. The Washington County Sheriff’s Office is investigating the fall in cooperation with the National Park Service. Plateau district ranger Ray O’Neil was the operations chief, Canyon district ranger Kevin Killian was the incident commander. [Submitted by Bonnie Schwartz, Chief Ranger]
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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Spoke with the poor fellow who was at the Chair Of Forgetfulness on Prodigal Sun on sunday morning. (It is more like a quarter way up than half.)
Initially there was a clatter of rocks. He looked up while his wife hid under the slight overhang to the left.
He saw the victim come over the edge but first thought he saw a hucked haulbag.
Then he made out limbs and thought BASE jumper.
But by the time she whipped past him less than 10m away he knew no way, and figured suicide.
Her pack had opened and items drifted down behind her.
A piece of paper fluttered by and he reached out and caught it.
It was a $20 bill.
She had bounced off the sloping approach ledge, but her pack remained there.
As the couple descended he put the $20 into her pack.
I wouldn't have kept it either,..
I found out today that, not only was the fall seen from on top as well, but that there are unrelated third party witnesses also (which is helpful).
Here's the thing.
She was off route, failing to take the main trail where it switchbacks up and right on a narrow sloping rock shelf with a chain.
Did she see it but seek an alternate?
She had continued straight following the Prodigal Sun "exit" trail the wrong way and probably didn't see the bolts and thus her error.
I had wondered if she just sought a private spot to relieve herself, but apparently not.
25 years ago there WAS no worn trail coming up from the route.
This is an issue born of increased traffic, although I suspect that there have been plenty of cases in parks where people have gotten into trouble following trails left by others.
Its just like how, on descent in Zion, people can mis-assume proper rap routes.
If you find a sling the only thing you REALLY know is that if it IS the wrong way then you are not the first.
Do I feel I have blood on my hands for putting up Prodigal?
Well, no doubt my stalker and his miscreant gang of facetious toadies along with his many cultivated sock puppets (please don't feed the trolls, people) would have you believe that if I had not made it "too easy" that the exit trail would not have existed.
I won't even try the hair splitting (literally) of pointing out that the last pitch of Prodigal actually followed the existing route, Angel Hair.
It was PS climbers that made the trail, but eventually even Angel Hair climbers would have caused one.
One might as well say the touron trail shouldn't be there.
It IS there, and now we have to deal with it.
I suspect I sleep better than the unfortunate climber who saw her last moment.
Nate, could you have misunderstood me?
Rangers should be resource protectors and people managers, not the opposite.
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