Any Christian Pentacostals in the ST crowd?

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Ricky D

Trad climber

Sierra Westside

Jan 12, 2009 - 08:20pm PT

I don't care if it rains or freezes long as I got my plastic Jesus riding on the dashboard of my car.

micronut

Trad climber

fresno, ca

Jan 12, 2009 - 08:23pm PT

I'm not a Pentacostal, but Apogee, why do you think it would be crazy sounding to have a rational discussion on this? Bad personal experience or something? Pentacostals mainly? Christians in general? Just curious.

rockermike

Mountain climber

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2009 - 10:38pm PT

My Mom always told me not to discuss religion or politics with friends. har har. I guess she was right. What a hornets nest. But as I opined on another thread. It seems we all end back where we started on these controversial topics anyway. But hell, this is Supertopo after all. At least I don't have to depend on all of you for my belay. ha Its all virtual.

DJS, figures don't lie but lairs figure. Who knows, absolute or %. The Mormons are doing pretty well too I hear. But here is at least one source to back up my statement.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
screen search for Pentecostal. a little more than half way down page. They say 8% a year growth - and I understand that is mostly by conversion. Islam is growing but mostly through birth rates.

If you are interested in a kind of sociological view of the religion a good book is Harvey Cox's "Fire from Heaven; the Rise of Pentecostal Spirituality..."

Anyway, I don't really have any skin in this game whether fastest or not, but it is clearly appealing to many.

jfs

Trad climber

Upper Leftish

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:32pm PT

Apogee, I’m honestly confused. I don’t know you and don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I’d assume you believe groups like the following have the right to assemble and speak out in favor of their beliefs…in public places.

(hope it’s ok to link to photos posted to web – will remove if it’s a problem)

http://www.dcpages.com/gallery/d/102232-2/DSC03206.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/1399256717_b5ad01ea9c.jpg

http://www.ilkahartmann.com/members/jbrave/phototext.nsf/images/06778DBF86D3201688256DFD006462DE/$FILE/National_march_for_Lesbian_and_Gay_Rights_07-15-1984.jpg

They all want to convince us their beliefs are truth. They all want to “convert” us in a way. I am certainly no “Pentecostal” so I’m not in your direct line of fire here…but it does seem strange to support free speech for some and not others. Sure, it may bother you to see it. That’s fair enough. You are free to be annoyed. But the “public square” is where “we” have historically gathered to collectively (or individually I suppose) express our beliefs – secular or religious. You seem to imply that this right is not universal – or that it’s ok as long as the belief being expressed doesn’t annoy you. This is not a “separation of church and state” issue…it’s simple free speech.

That pesky clause “freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble” thing kinda means people have the freedom to SAY…out LOUD even...where you might even HEAR them…things that piss you (or me) off though, eh?
…………

Shuffling off a little embarrassed to have posted to an off-topic Supertopo thread…shame on me.

jbar

Ice climber

Russia with love.

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:45pm PT

I don't talk about religion to any but those who either share mine or those who express an interest in talking/debating/or otherwise discussing beliefs.
What always confuses me is the people who profess the respect for others beliefs as long as they don't butt in on their lives are always the ones who can't leave like believers alone to a discussion without their negative comments. Hmmmmm, isn't that odd.
Example: If I tell someone they will be in my prayers because I know they share most of my beliefs and I know that is important to them there will follow NO end to comments from certain individuals slamming my belief system, telling me why theirs is better, suggesting I practice a philosophy such as yoga or taoism instead (both are great but not a religion), etc, etc, etc
If and when I read posts from others who don't share my beliefs I think you will find I try to respect their beliefs and I refrain from commenting. I don't offer negative comments and I especially wouldn't butt in and tell them how their religion/non-religion sux and try to push my belief system off on them all the while complaining about the way their religion supposedly does the same. To each his own and we are NOT all the same. If I believe in GOD does that make me a Baptist a Catholic a Methodist or maybe even an Agnostic? Why stereotype me?

Oh wait. I get it. It's because it isn't about THEM.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jan 13, 2009 - 01:00am PT

While I'm in the "spiritual" camp which naturally sympathizes with the various "religious" camps, it's more than understandable that nobody wants somebody else's religious beliefs turned into laws that constrain your life.

Nobody wants to be judged either, religious folks nor atheists. Sadly, there is a history of judgment from many religious folks has bugged people. I feel it's repugnant as well and resent the way an air of superiority and judgment keeps people from their own souls and makes a search for ultimate truth and meaning seem like a fools errand.

So the way I look at it. We're crazy humans and we're stuck with each other taking smack and championing our narrow views, whatever they are. Best to live and let live in the middle of this madness cause otherwise you have to live with a dry heart.

Peace

Karl

jfs

Trad climber

Upper Leftish

Jan 13, 2009 - 01:13pm PT

Weschrist, so freedom of speech applies to political groups and not religious groups?

.................

As far as those fire-and-brimstone, hateful dude's you apparently run into so frequently. Annoying? Heck ya. Laughably annoying? Sometimes. Even embarrassing for some. No argument here.

couchmaster

climber

Jan 13, 2009 - 03:20pm PT

Apogee: Christ died for YOUR sins! You need to learn the love and wisdom that is His which can only be yours if you prostrate YOURSELF below the one and true Almighty God! For it is said in the holy book: “"...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. "

Blessed are those who post and learn of Gods will....Inshah Allah.

PS, I'm just taking a left turn like everyone else to avoid answering the original question and mess in with Apogee, who didn't have to read this thread (like he said he wouldn't yuk yuk then he posts 3 times on it! ha ha !).

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jan 13, 2009 - 07:01pm PT

A crazy dude spouting off about aliens and making a scene would most likely be run out of there... why not Jesus freaks? What's the difference?

None, the Alien dude has a right to free speech too. You'd have to define 'making a scene' though. There are laws regarding public nuisance and disturbing the peace. If the 'Jesus freaks' just reading scripture or asking you if you want a Bible, I see no harm...walk away or tell him you're not interested.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jan 13, 2009 - 07:02pm PT

All those participating in this thread should identify whether they are adherents of a religion, and if so, which one. Church name, etc. And if not, whether atheist, agnostic, spiritualist, whatever. Exact and complete details.

(I'm not participating, just commenting.)

Gene

climber

Jan 13, 2009 - 07:30pm PT

Knuckleheads,

The FA limits the government in regards to religion, speech, assembly.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Spew away. Group hallucinations are welcome. So are people who chose to believe in God.

gm

Christian by choice.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jan 13, 2009 - 07:48pm PT

Anders, et al., I'm a Roman Catholic, however nowadays I pretty much just consider myself a 'general Christian'. I was married in a Lutheran church, the pastor (a chick) was pretty cool.

The whole freedom of speech clause was intended to protect controversial, dissenting speech, not polite speech. The thing about controversial speech is that you have to keep in mind that others have that same right...sometimes to disagree vehemontly. (kinda what makes the Taco nice).

edit: sonofa...I misspelled vehemently...hopefully y'all got the point.

jfs

Trad climber

Upper Leftish

Jan 13, 2009 - 08:58pm PT

Knucklehead by nature...Christian by choice...dirtbag by default...

psuedo-intellectual despite best attempts to appear otherwise...

=)

cheers.

Sir loin of leisure...

Trad climber

Jan 13, 2009 - 11:20pm PT

wescrist,I am your father...

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jan 13, 2009 - 11:20pm PT

"What it does is allow people to believe all sorts of things, "

I know you're too smart to actually believe that statement, you can do better than that, smartass!

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber

valley center, ca

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:33am PT

rockermike, yeah...I have been healed by prayer. Smoked cigarettes ....3 1/2 packs a day....went to Calvary Chapel Church to an "After Glo" service and they prayed for me....never smoked again. (It's been 27 years.) I can also relate many miracles God has done.... Many !

In response to an email ... I don't know if there are "general Christians." I think you either believe what Jesus says in the Bible and follow what He says or you don't. That's it. Jesus Follower or yo ain't.

Jess Sayin.... : DD Lynne