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Pennsylenvy
Big Wall climber
Le' Bia
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Nov 26, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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City of Rocks, where I first met scuffyb soloing in the swiss cheese area?..Anyways, I like to compare ratings for different places. Pretty tough. One big thing is the first acsentionists. Especially on newer routes sometimes their word goes, and often they sandbag it so they don't look like wimps. Then you get there and climb the 10a thats more like 10d pg. I have seen stiff ratings alot of places I've generally felt were soft. I even managed to get on a bunch of soft rated 10a's at Josh before getting on a "real Josh 10a". I've often thought Vegas was soft but realize there are plenty of exciting routes at many grades to be had. And how about the 5.7 OW at yosemite, who's gonna say they're soft? One of my bigger concerns, and has been important lately is not the number on the climb, it's the protection on the climb. Anyone can lead a well bolted 10a sport climb, but there's a world of difference when your looking at the possibility of broken bones. That's the most interesting thing about ratings to me. Cheers, hope to be climbing all weekend.T
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Nov 26, 2008 - 12:09pm PT
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I'm with Tar, I think of Walk On The Wild Side As an 8. I looked in my book, 7+. Haven't done that in years.
I thought the near by Harley Queen was a stout 10. Great route though.
I guess due to hand/body size, Indian Creek ratings seem so all over the place. Top sirloin is 11b? Kinda felt like 10c to me. Easier than Finger Licken or Five and Dime. And then there's Anunnaki 12-, soooo lite.
Jeff
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Nov 26, 2008 - 12:58pm PT
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Not that it matters, but I find valley climbs rated under 5.10 to be all over the place. I almost threw up after leading the first 5.7 pitch on the dnb. Above .10 and they feel right on. Exceptions, of course, abound.
I went to Josh for the first time after climbing a lot in AZ, and when climbing was the sole focus of my life. The climbs felt soft for the grade. Now I go to any climbing area after having a couple of kids and working for my corporate overlords and all the climbs feel sandbagged!!
Any climb with a "+" is sandbagged.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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Nov 26, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
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ill crush everything in my flip flops and downgrade it. im just that good.
i will add that when i was climbing a lot, i was at the gunks and got worked on a 5.7. kens crack or something like that.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 26, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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As some general rules:
1. Ratings in a given area tend to be internally consistent.
2. The nature and history of a climb often are of significance.
3. Sustained climbs tend to be either over or under graded, particularly if strenuous.
4. The Tahquitz Decimal System isn't necessarily the best measuring stick, and is sometimes applied in ways that it wasn't meant to.
5. Rating climbs is a pretty subjective business.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 26, 2008 - 01:35pm PT
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One more observation on ratings. Considering the wide variety of types of climbing, e.g. slabs, cracks, steep to overhung faces, and different body types, I have always found the degree of consensus in ratings to be quite remarkable.
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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Nov 26, 2008 - 01:47pm PT
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Eric, do you mean the variety of climbing at a given area?
That is, you wouldn't expect an area to be light in, say,
thin cracks but stiff in face climbing or other size cracks?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Nov 26, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
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As was said, ratings tend to normalize over time. The routes to be concerned about are those that have seen few if any repeats or are so old that nobody likes to change the grade.
Ultimately, the purpose of a rating is to give you a good approximate of how hard the climb is. Individual strengths and weaknesses will affect how "approximate" the rating seems to you.
Most people swarm the low angle dummy domes, but there is actually a lot of variety of types of climbing at Josh. Many great routes see few ascents. 95% of climbers at Josh climb the same 5% of the available routes.
In the harder grades (eg: hard sport routes), Josh is generally stiffer than many other sport areas (like Red Rocks -- which is notoriously soft). On the other hand, I found Rifle very stiff.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 26, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
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This aint' no low angle dummy dome.....
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the_don
Trad climber
Somerville, MA
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Nov 26, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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As some general rules:
1. Ratings in a given area tend to be internally consistent.
In general, I would agree.
But I did find Joshua Tree to be an exception to this rule - I found the grades to be all over the place.
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harrison holthouse
Trad climber
Taos, New Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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I was trying to find out for a friend who is a relatively inexperienced leader, who wants to go do wotws, and she'd be the only one leading. Taking the braille book in yosemite for example, that does not seem like what I consider a 5.8, nor really does the nutcracker, they seem like they have moves closer to hard 9's or easy 10's compared to what Ive climbed in central and northern New Mexico. A 5.7 should be easy enough that anybody mildly athletic can do it in my book, and shouldn't require a plus or minus. That and heresay are what made me wonder weather 5.7+ actually meant a relatively difficult climb. I'd hate to see my friend go out there and get hurt for lack of understand of grading differences, which are quite relative and stupid.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 26, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
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How hard is the climb?.....It's 5.9........Is it 5.9+ or 5.9-?.........It's 5.9-......Is it an easy 5.9- or a hard 5.9-?.........It's a difficult 5.9-..........Compared to OTHER difficult 5.9- climbs, is it easy or hard?......It's easy compared to other difficult 5.9- climbs I've done........(STFU, n00b....)
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Nov 26, 2008 - 04:23pm PT
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As I have said elsewhere...
"Ahhh Jtree.. the land where crusty old neverwere's feed their shriveled egos by shredding those of hapless newbies"
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Nov 26, 2008 - 04:41pm PT
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Instead of hand wringing about the rating, tell her to give the climb a good look and to continually evaluate the adequacy of the gear compared to her comfort level as she climbs. Feeling uncomfortable with the climbing and the gear might mean coming down.
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jack splat
climber
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Nov 26, 2008 - 05:01pm PT
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urg urg urg urrgg
Bllaaaarrrffff!
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jack splat
climber
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Nov 26, 2008 - 05:02pm PT
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glurgg gluck glurrrrrrr
BLAARRRFFFF!!!
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roy
Social climber
New Zealand -> Santa Barbara
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Nov 26, 2008 - 05:22pm PT
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My experience at the Gunks is limited but I can't imagine any climb there that would allow you get a feel for how things would go on WOTWS. How about having your leader friend warm up on Stichter Quits (5.7) first. The grades are close, and the style is similar, but SQ is much easier. If they find it a romp, then go for WOTWS.
Cheers, Roy
[edited to make sense]
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 26, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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The 5.11 climbs at Joshua Tree are hard;...as 5.11 should be. I think some places established by gym monkeys rate climbs like climbs in the gym;....if you have to pull really hard, it's 5.11.......not really so......that is why people whine about the 5.11 climbs at Joshua Tree.......just because you can climb 5.11 in the gym or at your home sport crag,.......probably means you won't at Joshua Tree..........or maybe it's just how Joshua Tree's aging crusty old neverbeens with shriveled egos rate climbs....(Jeremy is correct, you know....).......)....
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Nov 26, 2008 - 06:21pm PT
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"95% of climbers at Josh climb the same 5% of the available routes."
This is definitely true.
And I hope it stays that way.
Brian
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 26, 2008 - 07:07pm PT
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Walk on the Wild Side, Sail Away, Double Cross, Headstone, Black Tide/Double Dip, Touch and Go, Mental Physics, Big Horn Mating Grotto, Trash Can Rock, Dappled Mare, Illusion Dweller, Thin Wall, Lazy Day, Loose Lady, Big Moe, White Lightning, Dairy Queen Wall, Mike's Books, Toe Jam, Bird of Fire, Popes Crack, The Eye, Clean and Jerk, O'Kelly's.............the rest of the Park is empty................(Joshua Tree is a lonely place).........
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