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harrison holthouse
Trad climber
Taos, New Mexico
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 25, 2008 - 10:43pm PT
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Im trying to find out wether Joshua tree is sandbagged or not. For instance walk on the wild side, 7+, If i were to see that at yosemite i would assume a hard 5.9 or easy 10 line, is that correct?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 10:45pm PT
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WOTWS would not be 9 or 10 in yosemite. It's 5.7.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 25, 2008 - 10:48pm PT
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I think the problem is that everything else is air-bagged!
Josh (mostly), Tuolumne, and Yos are the standards.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 25, 2008 - 10:48pm PT
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josh ratings are pretty on, except for the one's the locals are sensitive about.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Nov 25, 2008 - 10:59pm PT
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I mostly climb at the Gunks...
Yosemite - 1 trip so far.
JT - 2 trips.
FWIW, in my lame ass opinion....
Yosemite grades are light compared to Gunks - period - but the climbing may be quite different.
Joshua Tree may seem stiff compared to Gunks, BUT not after you are 15-20 feet off the ground. Some JT climbs in my limited experience there, had starts that seemed stiff for the grade followed by easy to very easy ground above.
My very limited experience is my hardest number grade trad lead was an 8 at Yosemite - onsight, maybe I was having a good day, but felt like I could have downc-limbed the whole thing. Plenty of 7 leads at Gunks, but only a limited number of those were onsight.
TR or follow 10c or so at Yosemite and JT. My first 10 was at JTree, had not even done a 10 at the local gym before that. Never climbed a 10 clean on the first try anywhere.
I am a wimpy leader. Only one lead fall.
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chumbawumba
climber
SF, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:00pm PT
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First time i did wotws i did the "unknown" 10b to the right. Now that was a sandbag for a 5.7 climber. Luckily I was too scared to fall. Good times!
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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Suck it up buttercup.
This ain't no sissy sport climbing area. Learn to climb and the ratings will be appropriate.
Don't like the rating for the route? Find another one. Chances are, it'll be just as hard for the rating.
Here's a stretch. Rather than worrying about how bad ass you are, try some easier routes and get used to the rock and the routes. Then work your way up.
You'll get far more climbing in, and spend less time in the hospital.
This ain't a good place to fall.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
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"Joshua Tree may seem stiff compared to Gunks, BUT not after you are 15-20 feet off the ground. Some JT climbs in my limited experience there, had starts that seemed stiff for the grade followed by easy to very easy ground above. "
This is becase the starts out here are not generaly counted in the overall rating. They're considered "boulder problems".
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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Joshua Tree ratings are soft...because the climbs are easy because the rock has great friction, and the climbs are dinky. Some climbs have hard entry moves that are harder than what the climb is rated......but it doesn't make much sense to rate a climb harder just because it has a boulder problem start.....Also Joshua Tree climbs are often foot-work intensive rated....so if you use your feet wisely, the climbs are cake. Most climbs are off vertical, so you can be fat, weak, and out of shape and still climb 5.10 all day long. Most climbs at Joshua Tree are quite protectable, ....and the run out ones you can top rope , get some gym monkey to lead, or just forget about it. The climbs are all short, so climb fast and you don't need endurance. There are not too often surprises, because most climbs you can see all the moves from the ground. Climbs in Yosemite are harder because the rock is slippery and the cracks are steep and slippery....making 5.9 and harder climbs difficult seeming. The weather is often nice, and we all know that foul weather can make climbs harder (or seem harder). Joshua Tree is the land of low angle dummy domes.....and people love to climb on those low angle dummy domes....If you climb 5.10 at the Gunks, you will be a shinning star at Joshua Tree.....the 5.10 climbs in the Gunks are really difficult in general.......and, like I said....fat, lazy drunk weak old guys climb 5.10 all day at Joshua Tree.........rlf is right on with his comments......he is like me;....old, fat, lazy, and weak, ....and he climbs 5.10 at Josh all day.......he doesn't even get pumped or strained either........the toughest part of the day is the approach with the packs so heavy with beer...........
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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"my hardest number grade trad lead was an 8 at Yosemite - onsight, maybe I was having a good day"
I onsighted Bishop's Terrace (5.8) and it felt light. However I tend to excel at jam-cracks and upper body work. I'm not pumped, just light.
I'm not sayin' it ain't 5.8, just sayin it's a great 5.8 hand-jam workout.
5.8 Tuolumne faces are way more terrifying, let alone the .9's and .10's.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:10pm PT
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Some climbs have hard entry moves that are harder than what the climb is rated......but it doesn't make much sense to rate a climb harder just because it has a boulder problem start.
And, since most of them are only 50-60ft long, once you are past the first 15 ft (that doesn't count) you are one fourth of the way done.
Ratings are for the exit moves.
;-}
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MisterE
Trad climber
My Inner Nut
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:11pm PT
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I am currently try to amass and reconcile gradings, etc from one of the densest areas for (to stretch a term) amorphous climbing , I believe, int the States - Northern Arizona.
We have wildly divergent types of rock and gradings. One thing I have found?
The grading is only representative OF THE AREA. Stay with that and don't try and compare areas, you will do fine, and find yourself with fewer expectations as a bonus.
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apogee
climber
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:11pm PT
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I agree with Todd- JT ratings generally seem softer than the Valley. Whenever I start to feel solid again climbing in JT, there's nothing like a trip to the Valley to get a reality check.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:11pm PT
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"Ratings are for the exit moves. "
And in many cases, should be reserved for the decents.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:18pm PT
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As one who has climbed in quite a few areas, here are my own assessments of local ratings:
Tahquitz / Jt: right on (by definition)
Yosemnite/Tuolumne: 0.5 soft
Owens River Gorge: right on
Clark Canyon: 1.0 soft to right on
Alabama Hills: 1.0 soft although some are right on
Tucson: Stiff by 1.5
Devils Lake: Stiff by 2.0
City of Rocks: 1.5 soft
Here's a theorem from my old friend Tom Kimbrough: "The more obscure the climbing area, the stiffer the ratings." The idea is that they developed in isolation and thought that they could never measure up to the major climbing areas (i.e. Yosemite).
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:32pm PT
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Pinched Rib seems kind of tough for a 5.8
Everything else in Josh is about right.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:35pm PT
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Pinched Rib hasn't been 5.8 for a long time. If I recall, a hold broke and it got a tad harder after that.
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:47pm PT
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After ten years of butt surfing I now rate climbs easy, hard and maybe later. But I recall after a season at the Tree Yosemite was hard and after a season at the Valley the cracks at Jtree you stuck like glue'
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:48pm PT
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Any climb I can make it up in good form is a climb appreciated. IMHO Ratings are highly over rated, but I understand they are very necessary. Especially for the pros !
Course this comes from an old newbie. Actually, don't tell me the rating. Do betta just climbin de rock with a few pointers from my friends. : D
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 11:49pm PT
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"by definition"
wait... isn't it the YOSEMITE decimal system?
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