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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2008 - 12:20am PT
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that is what I have always believed...i just got married and having the doubts of extended family in regard to my ability to keep us out of debtors prison has caused me to second guess myself somewhat. Although I have managed to do what I enjoy and what works so far and with a relatively small income, I have only a tiny amount of debt and that is from my college loans. I have always felt that its less about what you make and more about how you spend that determines financial constraints.
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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Nov 22, 2008 - 12:22am PT
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I had a job with a school system once. At first it was really great to have the schedule and time off and all that. Then I realized how poor I was. I had to feed my wife and kids and pay off my student loans. At one point I had 5 jobs, trying to kill the loans.
Then I saw the light and bailed into other avenues.
I like the nursing idea the best. You help people. You get paid. You have even more time off than with teaching and make 3-4 times as much money.
pretty simple.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 22, 2008 - 01:26am PT
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I also want to be able to go to places like Baffin Island...
I went there a couple of times as a young dirtbag. It was easier to do it as a dirtbag than it would have been as an employed professional.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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I am looking into physical therapy-
while its not quite as lucrative as nursing there seem to be a lot of job opportunities and I can take some of the classes for free while I'm teaching at the college.
The wife is now looking into the nursing field...that might facilitate a career as a dirtbag/outdoor educator etc...
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Dolomite
climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:32pm PT
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Please don't go into teaching unless you have a real passion for your subject and for the kids. There are plenty of lame people just punching a time clock in our schools--don't become one of them just so you can build (try to) a life around climbing. Also keep in mind: I've been teaching for close to thirty years and worked probably three-quarters of the summers, too. Mainly: stay out of debt!!
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DanaB
climber
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Nov 24, 2008 - 05:06pm PT
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Nursing does have its advantages. I graduated nursing school in 1976 and I have, essentially, never worked full-time. In the past 16 years I have been able to live comfortably while working three days a week. However, I was an ER nurse for a long, long time, I was an ICU nurse as well, and I saw up close the working conditions of the ward nurses. I would advise anyone who is considering nursing as a career to think long and carefully before she/he signs up. If anyone wants to talk to me about nursing, just send me a PM.
Dana
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James
climber
Leavenworthless
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Nov 24, 2008 - 05:20pm PT
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If you are giving yourself a choice between career and climbing then choose career. The climbing lifestyle is difficult.
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 24, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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I'm a nurse. I work nights in the ICU. I did it so I could climb. I've worked as a guide for 4 summers in the past. I just got my AMGA rock guide cert this year.
As an outdoor educator it has definitely made me more desirable. I credit two guide jobs, a season on Yosar, and another job as a director at an outdoor ed program to the trust and respect gained knowing I'm an RN.
Nursing is great for flexibility, after seeing the lifestyle and living it, it is hard to imagine anything else. I go on trips with my old friends all taking out vacation time and I'm there on my normal schedule. It is a hard job though, like say working wild land fire, it wears you out hard sometimes. Its a mental thing.
It was hard last night I had to insist on tieing down some poor old man who didn't want to be after he pulled out all his IV's for the 3rd time confused wanting to be somewhere else. Or a few weeks ago I missed the someone might be showing early signs and symptoms of a possible heart attack. He wasn't but I caught a ton of heat for that one. Or just making the calls all the time and recognizing is this patient really changing for the worse right now? Should I wake up the doctor in the middle of the night right now? If you don't call and they get worse that's no good, if they aren't really getting worse the docs will make you feel that way too! Constantly always making those kind of decisions. It's a lot of responsibility.
You also have to do a ton of mundane tasks over and over. On slower nights I'll be sitting around watching the clock knowing that at exactly 1130 I'm allowed to log in to a computer and chart various things. Then again at exactly 3:30 etc, sometimes the endless repetition drags on.
So a great job, allows an amazing lifestyle, & the work is very meaningful, but it aint no cake walk. Really think about it. My parents insisted I go to some fancy private school and I saw nursing as the fastest cheapest ticket out of of there that would have a lot of opportunities.
I've always insisted that work is work. Working guiding even I would feel burned out some days 'having to lead some punk up this certain route today' or rappelling a rich chaps' cooler down the cliff so he can eat gourmet sandwiches and drink beer while his kids climb...! One job is another, some are just a little better :P
In highschool my math teacher insisted on telling my parents I was the best math student he had seen in 15 years. I've always been commended as some kind of math/computer genius. I feel like some days I was born to be an engineer. I have a dozen friends at Intel in San Jose and Sacramento though.... and I can't imagine myself in their positions. Almost all of them have to work 10-12 hour + days 5 or 6 days a week. Many are stressed out worried about job security (one of my best friends was let go recently). And I can't imagine myself in a little cubicle behind a computer for my future? I make just as much as them and I work 3 days a week, I love the freedom nursing gives me to pick up and leave or go work fun jobs in the summer.
I question some days if I made the right decison; I know I made a good one though!
---------------------------------------------
AMGA-
The AMGA programs on a side note our awesome I can't say this enough. You will learn so much just going through the early courses and you will be a better guide for it. It is quite evolved and fairly stressful. I felt that getting my RN license was easier time and commitment wise than finishing the Rock Guide this year. I can't say enough how much I've gotten out of the programs though. If you are seriously considering guiding put some serious thought in here.
It is also the golden ticket for guiding employment. Once you have a cert you will be able to get hired much more readily and closed doors will open at more desirable positions like say something like working for Exum or YMS. There are also permit/insurance benifits more so each year and a major prodeal program.
YMMV
Ryan
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Nov 24, 2008 - 06:45pm PT
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If Philosophy is your 'other' passion, have you considered getting your M.A. or Ph.D. and teaching college?
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 08:03pm PT
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Ryan-
Thank you for that very detailed response. I like what you said about work being work, just some jobs are a little better. For that reason I dont think I will pursue the AMGA certs and guiding as a career in itself; rather to have it as an accessory with other jobs like teaching or outdoor ed. It would be a nice thing to be able to do for a short time, without it becoming a grind, because I would never forgive myself if I took the one thing I consistently love to be involved in and relegated it to labor.
Melissa-
I have thought of that, or a variation of that. I double majored in English/Phil, and of the two I think English is the more marketable. Plus, there is plenty of room for Philosophy in writing and interpretation. The difficulty with that plan is this: I am currently teaching in a Jr College in the PE department and I have watched how hard it is to get a full time position because none of the suits want to have to pay for benefits. Everything is adjuncts. For me to be an adjunct now, with just a BA and some elbow grease to go on, is ok. To spend time getting additional degrees and still being an adjunct would suck-- and as it has been stated here (and I can bear witness to) Eng Phds are a dime a dozen and only a handful of schools actually have an independent Philo dept that is not in fact a branch of the Eng dept.
A bigger part of this whole debate, for me, is that I am Diabetic and have to have health insurance to get insulin. I am healthy and I will have to take insulin for the remainder of my life and yet it takes an act of God and all kinds of money for me to buy what most everyone elses bodies produce without even flinching. If it were not for that added expense, I would live out of my car and push a mop or do menial labor and be thrilled with that.
With those constraints, secondary education seems much safer both in terms of demand, and in terms of benefits even though I much prefer the autonomy of teaching college students to babysitting ill behaved adolescents (which I have done as a sub for a few years)
Teaching overseas is beginning to look interesting since there is little certification necessary to do that beyond what I already possess. Not a high paying idea but one that may afford me benefits if I choose carefully and a chance to see some other mountains.
Sorry for the length...
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 08:10pm PT
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not gonna lie, cobbling was one thing i kinda wanted to do. i have always been combating my innate desire to take up completely esoteric trades in hopes that they will suddenly become profitable after decades of dormancy...
but your advice is sage and I will add that to my list of defunct career options.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Nov 24, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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Teach... (Nursing is good too.)
It is steadier work and you have more time off.
Nothing is like having a dependable job AND the time to climb. It allows you to actually have a life! Trust me when I say that nothing beats that!
AF
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 08:19pm PT
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Ted Kazcynski (sp) almost made a career as a tenured college prof...here I have yet to blow up a single person and I am just an adjunct. weak.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Nov 24, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
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Do both;
Teach full time.
Guide part time.
Its cool, Climb on someone else's dime.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Nov 24, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
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Dentist, no one has mentioned dentist!
People all over the place have teeth, you can live anywhere. If you work for a group practice or own your own place you can take a lot of time off ( I get ~2months a year right now) and have money for a new rope if your buddy fell on your new 70m.
You have to commit more to the profession than RNing usually though, and commit more to school beforehand as well - although I was in the mountains at least 80% of the weekends and holidays all the way through college and dental school, so you commit while you are on campus!
You do have higher loan costs, but you make more, you just choose not to live like the other dentists, keep living like a college climber and the loans don't matter.
Good luck with your choice!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 24, 2008 - 08:34pm PT
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Q: What's the difference between two medium pizzas and a guide?
A: You can feed a family of four with the pizzas!
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Nov 24, 2008 - 08:41pm PT
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Might H. LOL its true Man.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 08:47pm PT
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as it stands right now, I am going to go into teaching and maybe guiding if i have the dime to throw at the AMGA, and my wife will go into nursing once I start student teaching and making a bit of money. Of course that plan only has a shelf life of about 18-24 hours...
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 08:54pm PT
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shhhhh... i told her im on the 6 year plan to get my teaching cert ;)
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Nov 24, 2008 - 09:50pm PT
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If you'd like, I can put you in touch w/ my brother who has been an insulin dependant diabetic since he was 6. He's now 42 and has generally always had good control of his diabetes. He did have to take nearly a year off work due to a bout of retinopathy once.
He opted for a career as a laborer, and although it has allowed him to provide for himself/his family nicely, I think he frequently has regrets about his choice specifically b/c of his diabetes. What was good, right-now money at 20 doesn't give him the same sense of security as the economy changes. Every person with kids, a house, etc. that works there has those concerns, but it is especially scarey for him given his need for benes.
As for adjuct hell...I did it for a few years and actually kind of liked the flexibility although I went FT for the stability, extra pay, and benes. I teach at a CA community college. If you are mobile, you could consider someplace like the bay area where even if you are a part timer, you can do it at multiple schools and still make a decent living. After 6 months you cna buy into the benes plan, but if you are FT they pay for everything. You are required by state law to have a Masters (min.) or evidence of equivalent experience in some cases. If you are really good and dedicated, full-time jobs always exist somewhere. Aspiring baccalaureates everywhere need philosophy and english for their general eds.
What seems like a big investment when you're young beats not doing the thing that you love over the long haul, if it is in fact what you love doing the most. You also get about 3 months out of the year off to go climbing, and if your lucky, only have to be on campus 4 days a week. :-)
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