Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 20, 2008 - 10:20pm PT
|
I would like to get some feedback on this since I am approaching a sort of crossroads careerwise...
I have my BA in English and Philosophy (26yr old). The philosophy companies arent hiring these days.
I am torn between:
getting my MA in education to get certified as a teacher, and pursue AMGA certification on my own, and hopefully use that to augment any teaching position that develops down the road.
or
I could get my MA in outdoor education and do the AMGA thing on my own and use it similarly to add on to some type of experiential ed job.
or
I could just do the AMGA thing as an end in itself and try to make it on guiding alone.
I know that none of these are career moves that will lead to a cushy lifestyle. My concern is just that I am able to live a minimalistic lifestyle. Additionally, I wouldn't want to make a job out of climbing and not be able to really love it, hence my trepidation. I also want to be able to go to places like Baffin Island...but if you spend all your time working to get the money to pay for it, then you will be all flabby from sitting on ass and when you get there you just huff and puff and wish that you were more physically prepared...
Apologies for the stream of consciousness rant. Just looking for feedback by anyone who has experienced any of the paths that I have mentioned. I guess that would mean that I am red-pointing my career rather than onsighting it...but I am willing to sacrifice style in this area.
Steve
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2008 - 11:39pm PT
|
you know, i was just talking about that with my wife and her mom tonight (they are both very supportive of my climbing initiative for all of its unconventionality)
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2008 - 11:47pm PT
|
The people I know with the most time off to climb are teachers. Forget a career in the outdoor industry, you just won't climb as much or make as much money.
Or become a nurse.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2008 - 11:49pm PT
|
Why did you get a degree in English and Philosophy? Did you want to teach?
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 12:02am PT
|
Initially I wanted to write or teach. I have been trying to get some freelance writing gigs while doing menial jobs to get by, but unless you have been published, its tough to get published. Circular and frustrating.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 12:08am PT
|
If your heart was ever really into teaching, then you should teach. Summers off to climb. Winter break. The year around schools have other breaks.
But I don't think that anyone should do it just so that they have summers off. I think it is better to find a career that you can poor your heart into.
Then climb as much as possible.
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 12:12am PT
|
True. I was considering guiding but can you make ends meet as a guide? Or even working in outdoor ed? If the stars aligned properly, maybe teaching outdoor ed stuff in college.
|
|
slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 01:30am PT
|
"can you make ends meet as a guide?"
No.
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 01:38am PT
|
Go the teaching path;......You get lots of time off, you have money to travel, you can live and teach in a climbing area, you have a retirement, you have insurance, you can have a family with a paycheck/insurance/retirement, you can take a year off of teaching to climb, and then return to teaching.
Guiding;....AMGA is expensive, and the life of a guide is one of poverty, cold days, hot days, no insuranse, no work, shitty car, and then you get tired of climbing too much, and only climb for money.....it's dirty, pays horrible, no insurance, no retirement.......only a few people can do it for any length of time with any degree of style and poise........it can be done, but not by many .....(You secretly already knew this, didn't you?...).......
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 01:57am PT
|
arggh...yes I did...it was one of those things where I just dont want to accept it. But that has been running through my head since I first considered the idea...
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 02:07am PT
|
blamo, Todd hit it spot on...
|
|
AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 09:29am PT
|
PORN STAR is the only career with a future it would seem.
|
|
Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 09:38am PT
|
I agree with Todd..........
Go with teaching . With teaching you get enough time off to do trips to Nepal, South America, Alaska etc AND you have the benefits of 403, retirement, incremental pay raises and the chance to work your way up the ranks to an administrative position.
As an AMGA guide you don't receive any benefits and the pay sucks.
Plus if you are a successful AMGA guide working for someone else your own climbing standard will probably begin to suffer and you'll become hateful and bitter.
The only guide certification I would recommend anyone taking is the UIAGM route. At least if you pursue that career you can guide in other countries where the pay and benefits are much better and you get the respect you will deserve as a guide. Even in Argentina guides get paid more than they do in America. In Argentina they have a university program where a person can earn a masters in guiding and so earn a really good living making their livlihood in the mtns.
BTW, I've been a full-time guide with my own business and been doing this for the past ten years. There is absolutely no benefit for holding a AMGA certification. None of my permits or insurance change because of an AMGA certification. It has to do with other things. My wife has been a high school teacher for 15 years and I've watched her develop professionally and so can appreciate both professions.
Being a full time guide is a fulfilling way to make a living but if I were to do it again (I'm 57 years old) I'd get my full UIAGM
certification and set up shop in Europe or Canada.
Cheers,
JACK
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 11:07am PT
|
Goods recs here, esp. Todd's comments on teaching v. guiding in the US, and Bldrj's on the UIGM. If you are really going to guide for a living, you are better off in Europe, or at least in certain sectors of the Alps.
Outdoor Education is not exactly a growth industry these days, and my guess is that the number of schools and programs hiring in the field is going to decrease rather than increase.
One caveat about teaching, though: If you really hope to write seriously, teaching English is not a good idea. The energy you need to write is precisely the energy you will burn reading and editing stacks of bad student prose. In most states, though, for good and bad, a teaching credential in Social Studies will generally allow you to teach any number of subjects in which you have essentially no training: so history, civics, the world is your oyster. Hell, in some hard-pressed districts, you could land the physics class off your philosophy major!
|
|
BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 12:10pm PT
|
Going to agree with Riley on the nursing thing. Been doing it for 14 years. Get to work when you want, take off when you want. ALWAYS have work, Pay is great. Usually work 3 days a week if that and climb the rest.
Good luck on whatever you chose!!
Shawn
|
|
Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 12:16pm PT
|
Heck, the deal with Outdoor Ed is that the pay still isn't that great! You devote alot of time and energy into it and sure, it feels good and all but when the times get tough and money is scarce that is not the profession to be in. Get a Master's in some subject, get a teaching credential and then create your climbing lifestyle around THAT.
How is your Spanish? Could you teach ESL? Friends of mine who teach English do spend alot of time writing but they still manage to find time to climb and still enjoy it. Others who teach ESL get along pretty well teaching that subject without being extremely fluent.
The main problem with any trade connected with outdoor sports and guiding businesses is that when the economy falls on hard times people cut back on guiding services, new GTX jackets, ski passes, etc. There are always friends who will take therir buddies out and teach them for free. There are always lots of gear swaps where people can purchase new stuff for very cheap. When the economy is strong then my services are always in demand and I'm busy, just not at this moment........
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
|
this has given me a lot (more) to think about, especially the guiding internationally. I have kind of felt that the teaching would probably be the most well rounded choice in terms of taking time to myself and still having enough to keep from starving. thanks again for the heads up though.
Steve
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
|
yeah thats what I was thinking would happen if I got my AMGA cert on my own along with a teaching cert. However, the other international guiding organization seems to be more highly regarded and I dont know how much more difficult/costly it will be to get certified through them...
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
|
Riley, Nurses, on the other hand seem to make more than teachers. I wonder about nurse who teach, though.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2008 - 02:50pm PT
|
I got an English degree with the thought of either writing or teaching, but I was really considering getting a doctorate and teaching at the college level. I ended up going to law school instead because I didn't want to spend six or seven years getting a doctorate and roaming the country on a series of one year gigs while I found someplace that offered tenure. Sadly, English ph.ds are a dime a dozen and lots of English depts. are underfunded. Grade school teaching seemed a good temporary gig only because I wanted to make more than a teacher (in the long run) and most long term educators I spoke with advised against going into it. I'm glad that Todd is a happy exception to that.
Having said that, it would have been nice to spent several years teaching before going to law school. Travel, climb alot, do something that's socially relevant, then, if you feel the need to earn more once you start a family, go to grad school. I considered the same path but I blew out my ACL and MCL two weeks before getting my B.A., which had to be rebuilt a year later. Kind of ruined my amibitious climbing/teaching plans.
I think you're doing the right thing by thinking about a plan so keep at it. Establish a long term plan, pick a plan B and work at it. Ultimately, I've felt best about the choices that have enabled me to provide the best for my young family. It's kind of put the kibosh on climbing for now, just because it's more important for me to be a good father and husband. Still, a gradual return to climbing at good form is just my new plan.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!