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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 03:22pm PT
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Am I the only guy here with the courage to back up his prediction with cash?
I'm saying Bush is not going to be impeached, and I'll cover any bet anybody here cares to place otherwise.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 11, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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Ignorance is bliss.
And you complain about $4 a gallon for gas.
There isn't any correlation.
Or torture.
You could be picked off the street because they
think you're a terrorist.
The cops do it regularly. It's monkey see, monkey do.
Conveniently forgetting that shrub and many of his a## kisser's
are war criminals. Attacking a country that hasn't attacked you first is against the United Nations Convention, which the US congress ratified, and makes his administration responsible for the deaths of the innocents in Iraq.
They may not impeach while in office, but shrub better look
out after he's out of office.
Oh yeah, they just tried to make a citizen's arrest on one of
the big blowhards--first Rumsfeld, then John Bolton.
Kissinger's still hiding for his complicity in Viet Nam.
Oh yeah, I forgot, that was another honorable fight.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 03:26pm PT
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Chaz, I'm not taking that bet....these fools have a dream though.
Bush lied, people died! hoorayyy!!!
(do you idiots ever step back and look at yourselves?)
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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Tooth, there's nothing to debate. If anyone thinks the Downing St Memo's are sufficient evidence to prove GW is a malicious liar then I'm done needing to argue anything on the subject. Those who take it as proof are going to believe what they're going to believe and it's usually because they have a deep seated agenda to find reasons to hate GW. I don't believe the intelligence was handled as well as it could have been, and I do believe some of it was misinterpreted, but those who think GW sat in an office a maliciously plotted to deceive Congress, the UN, and the rest of the world about our justification to invade Iraq are just silly. He's not that bright! He couldn't hatch that kind of plot and pull it off if he had Hitler whispering ideas in his ear.
Ed
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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You're right, he's not that smart. Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, Feith, Condy and all the rest of them who were egged on by the rest of the neocons who never had to face down the
barrel of a gun for their county. It's really easy to send someone else's sons to war than it is to go yourself.
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pleasantOs
climber
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
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GULP, GULP! Hard to talk when you're a NEOCON on your knees!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:34pm PT
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You know what your problem is, all you Repub's are crap crowd, is that we're not particularly happy either.
You think that because someone holds a particular, individual value that he's automatically 'the enemy' and a member of the far-right-conspiracy. Same goes on the other side of the aisle.
We need to look at issues as that...singular issues, no pork-spending that get's attached, no additional laws, just one issue at a time. Yes or no. Our congress is rotten, there's no arguement here.
Until we fix that, we're screwed into the Military.Media.Corporate.industrial complex.
I'm growing bored of this topic and I just want to buy guns and say "Fu-k everybody, I'm taking off", and live in ther country.
...but without me, Ca. would have no voice except for Jody, Woody, Fatty, and TGT.
I'll stay, but I'm locking and loading. Fu-k you!!!!!!!!
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Richard
climber
Bend, OR.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:38pm PT
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I think Rep. Kucinich know there's zero chance for Impeachment. But I like the fact he's stating the case for the record.
I believe when the history books are written, the historiians won't be kind to GWB. Dennis Kucinich is laying the groundwork for that.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:39pm PT
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Kucinich is a hero and the fact some can label him a nutcase show how far from the truth we've come.
If we'd simply call the players to testify under oath and review the records, we'd have plenty of hard evidence. I doubt we'll get that far.
Democracy is over in this country, barring a miracle.
I have at least some minor hope Obama will be better than what we've got but the pile of crap is already backed up
Peace
Karl
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 11, 2008 - 04:43pm PT
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Yeah, Obama would be smart to pick Jim Webb as a running mate.
That would be a good move. Webb's a sharp man--and he's been in the military, and very against this war--his son is in the middle east now (or had been there), he's not one to mince words about it.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jun 11, 2008 - 06:03pm PT
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Bill Moyers did an excellent job on this issue:
BRUCE FEIN: he is seeking more institutionally to cripple checks and balances and the authority of Congress and the judiciary to superintend his assertions of power. He has claimed the authority to tell Congress they don't have any right to know what he's doing with relation to spying on American citizens, using that information in any way that he wants in contradiction to a federal statute called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He's claimed authority to say he can kidnap people, throw them into dungeons abroad, dump them out into Siberia without any political or legal accountability. These are standards that are totally anathema to a democratic society devoted to the rule of law.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript2.html
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 06:19pm PT
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I won't take Chaz's bet but I sure as hell signed the petition. Worst prez of my lifetime so far. Chimpy and his admin deserve to be dragged thru the mud. Drowned in it, even.
There is a distinction to be made between 'republican' and 'Bush supporter'. And I don't think theres anyone left on-the-fence anymore concerning Nimrod, regardless of political stripe. Either you love him or you can't wait to kick him out.
You must recognize at least to some degree that some of the values the Republican party has traditionally laid claim to have NOT been well-observed by Bushy & Friends.
It seems like somewhere along the line the party was invaded by gluttonous corporate interests AND hair-brained christian conservatism/fundamentalism. Now of course the Dems are utterly guilty of the corporate pandering as well, no doubt. BUT ... but ... that politico-religous thing just adds another signifcant cringe-factor IMO.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 06:53pm PT
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While you're at it, why don't you sign that petition that outlaws the internal combustion engine and replaces it with Unicorn Power?
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
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Oh right because when something seems impossible its silly to even try. Thanks for reminding me. I'll go back to being apathetic now.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 11, 2008 - 07:26pm PT
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Chaz or Bluering, it seems you think the articles of impeachment are bogus.
There's a link upstream to the full text of the 35 impeachment articles. How about this: Pick out just one of the 35 articles, and debunk it.
Or, just go on name calling. You'll probably get a bit farther doing just that.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 11, 2008 - 08:02pm PT
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Assume that Obama wins, and that there are Democrat majorities in both the Senate and House.
They'll be spending the first two years or more cleaning up Bush's messes, with little ability to take any initiatives.
They are likely to want to pin the tail firmly on the elephant, through investigations and hearings, if not impeachment. Though there's plenty of blame to go around. The Democrats may have been the minority from 2003 - 07, but few vocally objected to Bush's fiscal incompetence, his attempts to subvert the constitution, his corrupt associates, or his imperial war.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 11, 2008 - 08:13pm PT
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MH
The democlucks regained the majority in the 2006 elections.
It is not an absolute majority, but they certainly could've done
more with it than they have. And it will take many more years than just two to clean up after shrub and associates.
Most of them should be implicated in one way or another.
Colorado's junior senator salazar should be included to the war crimes list because he voted for the military commmissions act, and also to allow FISA to be trashed.
Kucinich is not a fraud, but the real deal. He voted against the war, has voted against funding it, introduced articles of impeachment more than once, has attempted to steer the political conversation to REAL issues such as healthcare, a department of PEACE, novel thought, eh?
(By the way, MH, my rant isn't really directed towards you, as
you and I are probably of the same thoughts, but I do disagree about the democlucks). They've been as worthless as the
repugnicrats. And just as effective. Hooray for Nancy Pelosi,
Charles Wrangell, and the rest who keep impeachment off the table. And ending funding of the war. All they have to do is
to table the appropriations bill. Immediate shut down. No money for the Pentagon, the war mongering. Of course, what's already been appropriated will continue the war.
The democlucks are gutless.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 11, 2008 - 09:12pm PT
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thank ya wes.
And yeah, the dumblucks are as assless as e-phant, they're all playin' the same game--good cop, bad cop.
Yep, there's some bad apples in there. Bad apples. The trouble is, there are far too few good apples.
Praise the Lord that somebody has the sight to actually see through some of this. Although in a room full of crap, I bet it's hard to see the windows.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jun 11, 2008 - 09:19pm PT
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nb300 wrote, "You must recognize at least to some degree that some of the values the Republican party has traditionally laid claim to have NOT been well-observed by Bushy & Friends."
You're absolutely right. I'm no Bush fan -- he's sold out the party and has done very little in terms of adhering to fiscally conservative values and limiting the powers of the federal government. But -- I don't believe he is sinister and evil like you must believe him to be if you think he deliberately lied about the pre-war intelligence and that our primary goal for going into Iraq was "for oil". Those are claims spouted by conspiracy theorists and people who have blind hatred for Republicans.
Oh -- looks like this movement died a quick death. The House has voted to send articles of impeachment against President Bush to a committee that is not likely to hold hearings before the end of his term.
Done. Game over. Thanks for playing.
Ed
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 12, 2008 - 09:33am PT
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Kucinich will continue to push the articles of impeachment.
He's got more guts than the rest of the democluck party.
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