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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:35pm PT
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There's still such a thing as a Big Gulp?! Whoa!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:43pm PT
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What is this thread about?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
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"Says who? Again, YOUR opinion. If I recall correctly, Slater did a bunch of the pitches on this route. Did he do it with his eyes closed? There are other eyewitnesses besides your pets."
If Slater got on it, then any first-person account of his stating what pitches he did and what he found on it would be entirely welcome - again, the only eyewitnesses that count are people who've been on it to see the stone where the facts are still there to be had by all.
And if you haven't been on it, then while you may be able to spew about the style, cultural impact, whether you didn't and don't like them, whether the slab should or should not be climbed - but you really can't say sh#t about the climb itself. So far, everyone that's bothered says it's hard and runout.
[ And Jody sure is writing in the first-person without attributing anyone else. ]
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:53pm PT
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Werner
"it's about this wide,"
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:55pm PT
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That slab is so hard that Jody couldn't take up his camera to provide us with some of those fine pics he takes! Now THAT'S hard!!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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Will we live to see a WOS thread of under 50 Posts?
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:09pm PT
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Doubtful Jaybro.
Of course I read that post of Christian's. He wrote me a week or so ago emphatically pointing out how obvious the rock scarring was and wondering why this was being overlooked. We both agreed that the water erosion on that part of the big stone after 25 years would easily hide small enhanced hook placements.
But to many of you WOS supporters, it's okay that they climbed the route the way that they did. That's fine. Everyone's obviously entitled to their own opinion. But don't expect all of us to jump on board when we don't agree.
And the comment about faulty memories of 25 years ago...The same holds true for Richard. His posts on the ST contradict what he has written or implied in his book. Why the honesty then and not years later? Mark also pointed out how he actually regrets being honest about the enhancing. If they were so good to avoid enhancing the hooks on WOS, why did they feel compelled to do so on their next two El Cap FAs?
What's also interesting is how you question SteveG's observations of the pitch seen from Horse Chute and his opinions about why these guys don't deserve the credit they're so desperately striving for. His credibility is stellar and so is his reputation. Yet, you pals of the WOS crew immediately discount both.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:18pm PT
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If anybody says that Werner doesn't have a pair I will refer them to this thread.
Is there any other reason?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:25pm PT
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"What is this thread about?"
IMHO it's about;
has-beens, wannabees, bitterness, recrimination, character assassination, assinine characters, jealousy, brinkmanship, sportsmanship, hole counts, as#@&%es with issues, that which issues from as#@&%es, nostalgia, debate, insults, ethics, lack thereof, name dropping, bag dropping, bolt chopping, slander, paraphrasing, misquoting, setting the record straight, revisionist history, respect, lack thereof, punditry, sky camping, style, lack thereof, low self esteem, misplaced anger, damnation, confession, salvation, hate, love, slab climbing, sport climbing, vision, lack thereof, figurines, hooks, dead horses, horse chute, enhancement, lack thereof, insiders, outsiders, gravity, erosion, hearsay, hauling, stone, steel, fact, fiction, integrity, lack thereof, dignity, indignity, whistling mud falcons, shrill harpies, philosophical differences and similarities, Vision, lack thereof, courage, cowardice, failure, success, reputation, credibility, lack thereof, whining, bitching, moaning, bobbing weaving, jabbing, a ringside seat at the digital deli.....
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:29pm PT
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Wade's pretty much telling it like it is...
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:31pm PT
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Though you gotta admit, the Deli is like Yosemite's Congress, where all the important sh#t happens.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:33pm PT
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Mimi >>>SteveG's ... credibility is stellar and so is his reputation.
Yup. Right up until he started posting on this topic. If you could only see how you two
come across to the casual observer. ppffffttttt !
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:46pm PT
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Bart, hmmm. The casual observer? That would be LEB, and she finds this particular controversy fascinating as hell.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:51pm PT
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Wade is wrong.
Mud falcons don't whistle.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:09pm PT
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Deuce,
Not since Walt left office.
regards.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:21pm PT
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No beef Jody. Healy, who chose to spout off about the legitimacy of opinions, cited you as having first hand experience on the route. I, and most others, probably recognize that you were not actually asserting first hand experience, but writing somewhat in jest. The "beef" is with Healy taking an "I'm right, you are wrong" stance when his basic facts were not even correct.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:26pm PT
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"His credibility is stellar and so is his reputation."
Reread the OP. Is it a post by someone thinking rationally?
Did Steve Grossman ever retract, correct or apologize for the false statements in his chapter of the Climbing Big Walls book? As I said before, if he'll lie about WOS, how can we trust him on anything?
At least with me, Steve Grossman no longer has any credibility on this issue and his reputation is tarnished.
No one has to agree with the line or the style of WOS, nor does anyone have to admire the route, but is honesty too much to expect?
(Edited to state that Steve only wrote a chapter of the climbing Big Walls Book.)
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:30pm PT
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Why do Steve Grossman and the other WOS haters continue to make Mark and Richard's religion an issue?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
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wade makes some good points, for a start, anyway.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:44pm PT
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"But to many of you WOS supporters, it's okay that they climbed the route the way that they did."
Short of saying the slab shouldn't be climbed, if that is what you're really trying to say, I haven't heard a single soul including (dare I name drop) Ammon, say they could climb it with less cummulative steel on stone than "the way they did." That they decided to winch a uhaul truck up the line and camp out on it for a month is more a matter of culture and style than a statement of the artifact left behind in the stone.
[ Wade - get that baby wrapped up in a nutshell and I think you've got it... ]
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