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10b4me
climber
Site C4 in TMCG
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Aug 23, 2007 - 12:42am PT
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let's not get carried away. imo mountain lions have as much right to live as anyother animal. sure, I hate to see the sheep population dwindle, but the relationship between hunter and prey is part of nature. furthermore, people are encroaching upon the boundaries of wilderness. what's a cat, bear to do?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Aug 23, 2007 - 01:05am PT
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For those of you that have to go armed into the woods, so you can kill all those dangerous "wild" animals, remember the REAL threat. That would be Fido, who bites almost 5 million Americans every year, killing roughly a dozen of them. Hope this makes you feel safer in the woods.
MS
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Aug 23, 2007 - 02:52pm PT
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I am curious about Ventura County for it really building in canyons encroach deeply into mountain loin habitat.
I have seen mountain lions before, but only with the aid of my dog. Without her I am sure there have been many times I walked right past one without knowing.
In fact, isn't there a famous shot of a man taking a picture of his family and later when the film developed he was shocked to see a cat sitting right next to them inside the trail brush?
AF
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Aug 23, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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After a 10-year stint in the Caribbean I moved back to California several years ago and purchased a couple of books from Amazon.com on cougar attacks on humans. About a third of the attacks in North America took place on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, where cougars are notoriously aggressive (possibly because natural prey smaller than deer are rare). What amazed me about the stories was how determined a cougar could be when it decided to attack. I read accounts of cougars attacking groups of hikers, a kid on a horse, a logger inside the cab of his truck, vacationers sitting inside their motorhome (in an animal park, not in the wild), cyclists on bicycles, a logger inside a cabin (cougar crashed through the window), etc.
But don't let that scare you, because the odds of being attacked by a cougar are extremely small. Just think about it: every day cougars in California must see thousands of humans, yet only one or two humans are attacked annually. I believe there was a period of 85 years or so in California with no confirmed attacks. Because cougars were hunted mercilessly until recently, their numbers were low enough that there were plenty of natural prey (humans rank very low in priority), so attacks on humans were rare or nonexistant. But as hunting declined (problem cats are still hunted by the government) and the cougar population grew, the carrying capacity (maximum population that can be sustained) has probably been reached with some cougars now occupying marginal habitat with a low density of preferred prey. Wandering cougars excluded from high quality habitat by rivals or territorial cougars occurring in marginal habitat with a low density of prey are probably hungrier on average and more likely to view humans as a potential meal. I suspect this is why the number of human attacks in California has increased during the last few decades.
I think the California cougar population has been estimated at something like 3,000-6,000 (it is not an endangered species). If the population were halved, there would be more natural prey available and I suspect attacks on humans would cease. Personally I detest hunting and I am not condoning it here, but I do think there is a link between cougar population density and attacks on humans, and that the risk of attack could be minimized by reducing the cougar population. When hiking alone, which I often do knowing it is quite safe, I try to be alert. It's the cougar you don't see that is the most dangerous.
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 23, 2007 - 04:44pm PT
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Don't judge the cougar population by those you don't see. They are reclusive and territorial and can cover a lot of territory.
When you start seeing them roaming around, better watch your old cornbread ass.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 23, 2007 - 08:43pm PT
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"I hate to see the sheep population dwindle, but the relationship between hunter and prey is part of nature"
it is true that the relationship between hunter and prey is part of nature. BUT the relationship between the lion and the sheep is not natural, because the natural balance has been greatly upset.
the sierra population of bighorn sheep is under extreme duress.
"Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep are considered one of the rarest mammals in North America."
http://environment.yale.edu/doc/3042/surveying_for_endangered_sierra_nevada/
cuz i'm on a dial up, i don't think i can listen to it, i tried, it said it would take like two hours, screw that, but here is a link to the presentation i heard. i'm the one who asked the question about if and how the sheep are affected by development in the corridors they travel through.
http://snvm.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/bighorn-sheep-by-dr-john-wehasusen/
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 23, 2007 - 09:34pm PT
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When I lived out that way, the post office in Eldorado Springs, CO kept a roster for local residents to list sightings and the entries were quite common.
Recently we had a mountain lion cross Broadway, just north of the University and another was found rummaging around somebody's backyard.
In a popular hiking area on Flagstaff Mountain, a small child was grabbed by one and the child was quite close to a group of adults; that incident is listed among the links above.
We have an ultrarunning buddy Kurt Bloomberg, who does a lot of training in the mountains by himself and he has had two encounters, in one of those encounters and possibly both, he's had to discourage the cat with sticks and stones.
I do a lot of solo mountain travel in summer and winter; nothing to report, so far.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Aug 23, 2007 - 10:09pm PT
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was "followed" by one on a solo hike in the Kolob in 96. Must not have been hunting me...as it was making a lot of noise. Spooky.
A few rounds from the snake charmer 22 in the pack scared if off with big echos off the canyon walls...but 6 beers didn't come close to getting the scare off me.
My uncle use to run lion hunts out of Blanding...MANY stories of how smart they are.
Be careful out there.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 23, 2007 - 10:17pm PT
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RE:
"It's the cougar you don't see that is the most dangerous."
only once have I FELT the eyes on me - they are there. Watching.
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Nohea
Trad climber
Aiea,Hi
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Aug 23, 2007 - 10:50pm PT
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A few years ago I bummed myself out bailing off the Captn, in a fashion I didn’t like so I decided to hike up to Sunrise camp and back. That night about midnight or so, a Mtn Lion let out a few screams on the hill behind the campsite. This was may ish or so, and I had the camp to myself. Those screams put a good chill up my spine so I put on my mp3 and started singing as loud as I could.
So maybe this should go in the worst thing ever done in Yosemite thread.
If you were hiking one night a few years ago and heard some tremendously audacious Neal Diamond singing….well…..i’m sorry.
Aloha,
wil
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:10pm PT
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RE:
" Carry a knife with an eight inch (or more) blade.
Some might be surprised to hear me say a handgun isn't much good, but consider the documented attacks. "
call me paranoid
Ron is exactly right - it just seems silly going out there without anything, I don't like it because it adds weight but I do all my back-country trips alone so...the blade on this one is only 3" but hey, it's SOMETHING.
I carry this knife, with a neat squeeze deployment sheath, on all my trips.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:24pm PT
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my friend has a house on the fairplay side of the hoosier pass, right behind the quarry. one morning he woke up and a lion is sitting on his deck, looking at the kennel where the dogs were barking like mad. just sitting there staring...no fear, almost curious. he kept a 45 handy in the kitchen for stepping out after that, but like its been said, i don't think you will see one if they are after you...
another friend art was walking down to horsetooth reservoir a few years ago after bouldering at rotary park with his gf. a lion jumped out from behind a rock and ran past them, up the hill, and across the road towards ft collins, disappearing into the trees at the top of the ridge...no sh#t...
last december i was on top of mt olympus out here in SLC watching the sun go down. during the walk out, i suddenly *knew* i was being watched. i heard something get killed and eaten on a rock 70 yds from me at one point. i had a knife in my pocket, which i didn't want to keep open or out as the trail was rocky and i was walking by faded headlamp (slip fall stabby stabby), but i *felt* something track me for a half a mile.
there's also no doubt in my mind that the 4 yr old kid that disappeared at cameron pass some years back while walking between the two halves of the group he was with was just carried off. 60 lb kid, big cat wouldn't even break stride...
and i recall my roomate finding half an elk ten feet up in a tree on the top of rainbow (?) rock right outside buena vista, colorado. several hundred lbs of meat stuck in a tree...
big cats still don't scare me as much as weird people though...
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:30pm PT
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I'm just glad all the mountain lions are down here in town, now,
no worries - they're too busy tipping over garbage cans, making the odd stray dog into cat food and jay walking across Broadway!
(note: they shot one by the creek right near the Library a few summers ago)
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
livin' that honky tonk dream
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:39pm PT
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"lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!!!"
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:46pm PT
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does this look like an ape that would fear cats ?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:47pm PT
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That reminds me, my creaky joints could use a little oil.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 23, 2007 - 11:53pm PT
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
livin' that honky tonk dream
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Aug 24, 2007 - 12:39am PT
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" I would guess my chances of being hit by lightning in the bay area are less then being attacked by a mt. lion, but I understand your point."
i would bet ya a BEER that your chance of being hit by lightning is greater than your chance of gettin' mauled by a cougar! holla.
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