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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 27, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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The man accused of murdering at least 11 people at a Pittsburgh synagogue Saturday morning was a neo-Nazi who posted online about killing Jews—and raged at Donald Trump for being insufficiently anti-Semitic.
Robert Bowers, 46, of Pittsburgh had an account on Gab, a social media site beloved by the far-right. On Saturday morning, shortly before the shooting, Bowers posted an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory and what appeared to be a threat of violence.
“Screw your optics,” he wrote. “I’m going in.”
Shortly thereafter, around 10 a.m., he allegedly entered Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue during a crowded service and started shooting. Witnesses said he shouted, “all Jews must die” upon entering, according to multiple reports.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-bowers-is-neo-nazi-who-posted-about-killing-jews-on-gab?ref=home
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 27, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
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Slippery term
One guy's take on it
The ultimate operational definition?
when you dislike someone so much that if you and the other person were in an empty room with a knife in the middle, one or both would be dead
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 27, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
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Why is there hate?
Poor white racist trash in America are angry about the changing demographics of America. They desire to return to a time of white supremacy. Trump is lending legitimacy to their mild-blowing ignorance and racist hate.
Racist hate has always been present in America. Racism has been openly practiced in the since the first slaves were brought here. The civil rights movement stomped on racism, but it never went away. Poor white racist trash are not the brightest folks to begin with, and now Trump is openly egging them on.
White supremacists have killed more people in America than attacks on American soil, Muslims, and left-wing radicals combined. Trump's white supremacist are the greatest threat to America than all of other enemies combined. They are the real enemies of the state.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 27, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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This is about how and why people hate so much they can kill people in their own neighborhood, how they take out hatred on people .... children, women and men they may have never met and decide to end their lives.
Every instance is different so to try and draw sweeping generalizations of human behavior from random acts is a fools errand. But our brains enjoy comfortable, recognizable patterns and so generalize we will.
Control what little you can control and dwell on today.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Oct 27, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
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Fake news.
But...
Hate the guns.
Hate the haters.
Hate the conservative right.
Hate the stupidity of those who disagree.
Most people are guilty of hate.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 27, 2018 - 10:06pm PT
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We receive stimuli —>
It is processed through our input filters, which evolve over time in response to our perceived experiences and beliefs —> this becomes the input we actually perceive
If the stimuli we perceive triggers our “fight or flight” response, we react in an automated robotic way without conscious thought. We each have a different pattern recognition library for fight or flight based on personal traumatic experiences. We each have a different fight/flight response based on what has been effective in dealing with our past traumas.
If it doesn’t trigger “fight or flight”, then we have the opportunity to apply conscious thought to associate meaning with the perceived stimuli, and a decision about how to respond. Our world view and environment and emotional/social needs and many factors shape what meaning we add to the perceived stimulii.
For people with anger/hatred issues, this last bit is where it is most easily regulated. But many people do not take responsibility for their own capacity to choose what meaning is added to the perceived stimuli. Many people are ignorant/unaware of their own emotional and thought processes. Other people are aware of their processes, but perceive them as fixed and immutable, not something they can or should invest time/energy in trying to change.
Then there are people who appear to have good ideals and add positive meaning to their perceived stimuli, but they are torpedoed by either their input filters that distort their perceptions before they can consider what meaning to add to it, or they are torpedoed by unresolved traumatic programming that causes their fight/flight response (amygdala) to activate before a rational response can be formulated.
This last bit is key to understanding how anger and hatred can be seen as a contagious disease, typically passed down from generation to generation within a family but also between any people in any variety of settings. The key point is that an “infected” angry/hateful person inflicts a trauma on another person, which causes hurt and triggers an automated response of anger and hatred in the other person. It cascades like dominos.
It takes exceptional forbearance, presence of mind, and emotional strength to break this cycle by rising above the pain and injustice of received hurt and not responding by spreading more anger and hatred. It requires understanding of the dynamic, willingness to revisit painful and traumatic experiences to reprogram our responses, and practice.
So to sum it all up in a short answer to the original question:
Hatred is a lazy and ignorant self-protecting response to a perceived hurt or injustice, however divorced from reality is that perception.
Some antidotes to anger and hatred:
 practice having balanced thoughts (rather than working ourselves up into a froth over perceived injustices), and beware of falling prey to one's own unmet expectations
face our inner demons, heal old wounds, come to terms with guilt or shame or whatever hidden pain, so we have fewer emotional landmines waiting to be triggered
practice soothing ourselves rather than lashing out when we are hurt
seek to understand what caused the hurt in the person who is expressing anger or hatred toward us
realize that they received it from someone else, and that other person from someone else, and the chain goes on ad infinitum...
have compassion for ourselves and our own mistakes, and when we make the space to nurture ourselves, it increases our capacity to forgive and nurture others. This stops the transmission of the disease of anger and hatred.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 28, 2018 - 01:38am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Not "the haters, the deplorables", but "what do you need, how can I help you"... If I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:12am PT
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The Pittsburgh Synagogue massacre was pure evil. My heart aches for the families and friends of the victims.
Hatred is a disease spread by small minded people clinging to arbitrary ideals.
Leave it to a fukwit like ET to turn a fatal hate crime into a Pud Boys anti-SJW rant... and something about the Megan Kelley reality show?
antichrist - see the hypocrisy?
Nearly all of the criticisms in this thread are against right leaning groups and individuals. Trump has been more divisive than anyone and rightly deserves to be criticized. They all deserve your criticisms. However, no one seems concerned about left leaning groups and individuals, who do their part to stoke the fires of hatred. Leading Democrats are encouraging hostility. Antifa frequently initiates violence. Seems like every week some Republican is chased out of a restaurant by angry protesters. These "liberals" get a pass. They may not be 50 percent of the problem, but they're major players.
Maybe... if you're interested in stemming the hate... focus on the haters on your side of the fence. You might be able to sway them.
Maybe you could sway people like antichrist, who sees himself as some kind of righteous hater.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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Show us we’re they shot innocent people. Or sent bombs or ran over people.
SLR is right ,you on the other hand defend this crap.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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Forbes-Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all. Nice comments for the most part Ed and I know your a nice guy but do we have to keep doing this?
With this President and the sick fuks in Congress who rely on the hate vote, it's only going to get worse.
Liberals by nature are a non cohesive group and the their brand of extremism will lag far behind.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:38am PT
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It's one thing to feel hate (I certainly do, from time to time) and it's something else altogether to be totally consumed by it. Love and hate. Life and death. Two of the most profound dichotomies that people make.
In his later work, Freud began to doubt that his theory, based on the pleasure principle, could account for human behavior. He considered the possibility of "the operation of tendencies beyond the pleasure principle, that is, of tendencies more primitive than it and independent of it": the life instinct and the death drive. Even Freud had his doubts. He said: "To begin with it was only tentatively that I put forward the views I have developed here, but in the course of time they have gained such a hold upon me that I can no longer think in any other way". In the "New Introductory Lectures", he said: "You may perhaps shrug your shoulders and say: "That isn't natural science, it's Schopenhauer's philosophy!" But, ladies and gentlemen, why should not a bold thinker have guessed something that is afterwards confirmed by sober and painstaking detailed research?"; and: "what we are saying is not even genuine Schopenhauer....we are not overlooking the fact that there is life as well as death. We recognise two basic instincts and give each of them its own aim". In the end, he said: "The assumption of the existence of an instinct of death or destruction has met with resistance even in analytic circles".
BF Skinner might say it has to do with how our behavior is shaped, the environment of "negative" and "positive" reinforcements. Could it be that Freud and Skinner both have something to say about this?
I have been out mostly out of touch with psychology since I read Freud and Skinner as a philosophy student in undergraduate school 40+ years ago. From the "Mind" thread, I get the idea that one modern scientific psychological theory sees the human mind as a sort of computer, running on algorithms. While that might be a useful idea if you want to build a machine that plays a mean game of Chinese Go, I can't see how it can helps much with the kinds of human problems motivating your OP.
In short, I don't know the answer to your question, but I appreciate the sentiment.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:44am PT
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The 'leadership' of this country has cajoled and implicitly condoned groups that are based on hatred of others for his own political & power advantage.
I find it extremely cynical that at a time when his power is being threatened by upcoming elections (due to recent events like the pipe bombing scare, and others), and effectively considers people like the perpetrator at Charlottesville to be 'good people', that he has suddenly made a full-throated condemnation of this violence in Pittsburgh. There should be no doubt in a rational mind that he is doing so primarily because he knows there is advantage for him in 'changing the channel', and pursuing the jewish vote.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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"From the "Mind" thread, I get the idea that one modern scientific psychological theory sees the human mind as a sort of computer, running on algorithms. While that might be a useful idea if you want to build a machine that plays a mean game of Chinese Go, I can't see how it can helps much with the kinds of human problems motivating your OP."
C'mon, Yanqui, if a history professor*** could figure it out, then a math/philos type of your calibre oughta be able to.
*** Harari
...
NutAgain, how much meaning you think folks here will gather from your post when it's clear a good three quarters of them (edut: or more) fail to consider the issues from an evolutionary biological ecological perspective?*** - indeed, when they consider such a perspective irrelevant?
We're still largely an ol' time religious/theistic culture at base. Until that changes, from the L's to the WBs, we're fated to go around and around on these issues and related ones. All we can expect in the interim as many say is to muddle through.
*** as evidenced by the 80-plus posts so far.
...
Speaking of "useful"... A couple altruisms I've found useful: 1. Brick by brick. 2 Rome wasn't built in a day.
How many climber folk here even know what entropy is?
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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Maybe Susan,I for one believe any one who would kill innocent folks with a gun is insane
I used to feel that way, too. Now, I just don’t know anymore if a mass killer is insane.
I see it now more as a lack of conscience. Anger run amok and sanctioned by conspiracy leaders and well known and “respected” politicians. Stoking the flames of fear into a “call for action”...then saying “well that’s not what we really meant” when horrific acts take place. And with our current leadership the scab is pulled back on any restraint. Equally complicit are the once traditional politicians that stand beside him and say “oh gee, he’s just a ‘different’ kind of president”.
The complete and wholesale demonization of people with different views has been like a wildfire, with horrific results, and very few seem willing to connect the dots.
I have been feeling increasingly discouraged and at my age there’s little that will truly affect me over time, but I absolutely ache for my son and his generation.
Susan.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Oct 28, 2018 - 07:57am PT
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Forbes-Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all.
From the same story:
Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time, about 0.7% of the total number of murders, but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed five since then, including Charlottesville.
Maybe, part of the problem is "liberals" unwillingness to recognize everyone contributing to the problem.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 28, 2018 - 07:29am PT
Show us we’re they shot innocent people. Or sent bombs or ran over people.
SLR is right ,you on the other hand defend this crap.
How about mailing ricin to Trump, Defense Secretary James Mattis, chief of naval operations Adm. John Richardson, FBI Director Chris Wray, CIA Director Gina Haspel and Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 28, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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However, no one seems concerned about left leaning groups and individuals, who do their part to stoke the fires of hatred. Leading Democrats are encouraging hostility.
This is the typical false equivalency bullshit that the right-wingers use to divert attention from their heinous acts.
EdwardT, let me try to explain this to you in terms simple enough for a right-winger to understand.
If the Nazis were trying to take over, we would take whatever actions were necessary to defeat such a vile enemy. People like EdwardT would say the defenders of freedom were stroking the fires of hostility.
Bullsh#t. We are defending our society from right-wing fascists and racists. We are not stroking the fires.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Oct 28, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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NO ONE is dismissing liberal contributions ed
were talking about triage and how to best allocate limited resources
given what we knows is common sense that your just a f*#ker standing in the road telling the fire truck to slow down and make the stops...
Triage and how to best allocate limited resources? Really?
Is this forum a special FBI anti-terrorism task force?
---------------------------------------------
This is the typical false equivalency bullshit that the right-wingers use to divert attention from their heinous acts.
EdwardT, let me try to explain this to you in terms simple enough for a right-winger to understand.
If the Nazis were trying to take over, we would take whatever actions were necessary to defeat such a vile enemy. People like EdwardT would say the defenders of freedom were stroking the fires of hostility.
Bullsh#t. We are defending our society from right-wing fascists and racists. We are not stroking the fires.
I thought liberals were supposed to be open-minded.
And what's with your fascination with "stroking" fires?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Oct 28, 2018 - 08:21am PT
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A thread to discuss hate has generated it.
Yeah, great.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Oct 28, 2018 - 08:31am PT
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Eric, Boy do I get how easy it is to hate! So much of it going around. I pray everyday to help me be kind, forgiving, not to try and judge. Works sometime, but I have found people that HOLD hate, waste a lot of energy focusing on that hate. It’s easier once you get it, to sometimes just blow it off and not let the anger or hate eat you up. Had a great talk this past summer with Kauk about this subject!
Peace
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