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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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Tamara, I cannot believe that you dissuaded the Times from publishing that your Dad took ballroom dancing lessons!!! This is clearly a missed opportunity: it's true even if it didn't happen.
Best, Roger
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Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
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Lol Roger.... You may have a point there.....
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 18, 2018 - 11:15am PT
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I consider Robbins and Harding to be the yin and yang of Valley climbing, each containing a bit of the opposite, but together, seeding the continuing dichotomy that is the essential paradox of climbing there - selfish, self-absorbed crazed fanatics push standards with zero concern for other climbers, history, or the resource, while climbing next to, and sometimes with, zen purists who impose the strictest criteria on themselves, and nevertheless occasionally push the standards anyway. Both Robbins and Harding deserve and generally receive admiration and respect for their boundary shattering, pioneering creations, and climbers have accepted that each was a far more complicated and nuanced person than even they might have admitted, sometimes behaving as if savoring the stereotypes they had created.
Limiting this set piece to rehashing a period when climbing had a rare high publicity moment forty years ago, a moment involving Harding's and not Robbins' climb, serves the memory or legacy of neither man. A better writer could have given the general public a glimpse into the background of climbing, the scope of Robbins' milestones, and how he influenced both the technical and stylistic standards, and finally the underlying philosophy of modern climbing, moving it from a 1950's Corps of Engineers conquest mentality, to a personal, internal challenge which continues through the Caldwells and Honnolds of today.
This piece is not a result of editing, as the entire focus is on the old Dawn Wall saga, and most revealing perhaps, with nary a mention that this is the very same wall Tommy Caldwell freed, in an even more intensely publicized event. Tommy's inspiration might have a bit of Harding madness in it, but the Robbins' influence is clear in Tommy's aspiration, to set the bar impossibly high, where success was never assured, and where justifications were never allowed to corrode the ideal, or allow compromises.
That may be the most enduring element in Robbins' legacy, and this article only cheapened and demeaned it, in passing.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Jan 18, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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I've read all of Duane's books and I think he's very good writer. But this article is weird from the get-go. I mean, why is it necessary to call out Harding as an alcoholic (in a remembrance in which he should not be center-stage)? I can only offer a couple caveats (which are not a defense of the piece). One, we, ie, anyone on ST, are not the presumptive audience for the piece; we know too much (but in a way that makes it worse!). And, two: these NY Times pieces are not obituaries at all. They're some weird hybrid nebulous form written with a good deal of subjectivity.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 18, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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Duane is an excellent writer. Mainstream media puts a premium on conflict, so focusing on RR's rhubarbs with Harding was an obvious choice, though not one that would probably satisfy a niche audience.
Adventure personalities are usually interpreted as warriors, and since a warrior needs an opponent, it often plays out in one of three ways: Man against Man; Man against Nature; and the best of them all, Man against himself.
Robbins always chased an idea, and tired to live up to it. Therein lies the story we all wanted to hear, because in the trying he laid down a path that few can ever follow, and which inspired several generations of climbers.
But times change. When I was up in Yosemite during the Dawn Wall FFA, I was amazed that many in the meadow, including full time climbers, knew little to nothing about RR.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 18, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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Why not a tribute to his vision in the form of noting the major firsts he did
Because it's the NYT not Rock & Ice
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 18, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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It always makes me laugh when someone quotes RR's excuse for not finishing his chopping mission.
For anyone who has chopped bolts, which is more likely: that Robbins had some kind of conversion like St. Paul, or that he got tired and that chopping the entire route wasn't worth the sweat considering he already made his point?
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 18, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Ballo,
To refer to Royal’s reasons for stopping the chopping as his “excuses” may be a misuse of the word. An excuse implies “something offered as justification or as grounds for being excused”. Royal’s reasons, as quoted above, I believe, offer no hint of justifying or of asking to be excused. He merely admitted a mistake – “a wrong action proceeding from faulty judgment”.
Neither of us complained of fatigue, nor did we adopt a new religious philosophy, we just climbed on despite the folly of the first day.
After the first bivouac, the "chopping" was never discussed. I, personally, never gave it a second thought. I was oblivious to Royal's inner conflict if it was actually gnawing at him as we proceeded. Most of his introspection must have occurred on the bivouacs, after dinner, and without discussion.
To paraphrase Yvon, "Climbing with Robbins is no fun - you know you're going to make it."
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 18, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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"Excuses" is probably a misuse, but you can remove the term "excuses" without removing the crux of my question.
I'm not dogging the man; I appreciate his ideals. The whole story just seems easier to explain without the moral conflict given what a PITA it is to remove a hundred bolts. Not saying that's how it happened and I appreciate your first hand recollection.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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Last weekend I read a few of the memorials in the Times Magazine. A few I knew about, Glen Campbell, others, I had never heard of. They all tried to capture the primary story about the person, all told in evocative ways. I just made me sad. Our guy seemed to be singled out for misrepresentation.
I think in the same number of words, using many of the same words, Royal's uniqueness as an individual and his lasting imprint on all of us could have been told, effectively, to the same readers.
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okay, whatever
climber
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Jan 19, 2018 - 05:00am PT
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I'd vote for "Tis-sa-Ack", his account of both his and Don Peterson's feelings (the latter told as though Peterson was speaking/writing, though it was Robbins' interpretation of Peterson's feelings, of course, that appeared on the page) on their ascent of that route on Half Dome, as his most interesting piece of writing. He also "spoke" for some others that had been involved in attempts on the route, in that piece. He at least tried to be objective about himself in writing it, whether successfully or not.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Jan 19, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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While the Times article/obituary is disappointing, though not surprisingly so, the most troubling thing to me in this thread is Largo's comment above, that at the time of the Dawn Wall FFA that many in the crowd in the Meadows "including full time climbers...knew little or nothing of RR". Think of that in Yosemite, even full time climbers who are so unaware of our history. I can understand it for 'gym rats', but "full time climbers" IN YOSEMITE!!!!
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 19, 2018 - 08:23am PT
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The Chauvinist at Tahquitz was a Mark Powell route with the typical Powell "5.7" friction.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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Kevin, I share your sense of what it was like to climb one of Royal's routes, but I think that only those of us climbing so soon after Royal's fist ascents and who were also starting to work on their own first ascents would wonder at Royal's skill and drive. Within a few years, there were other more impressive routes to wonder at. Royal's best routes were bold and sort of outlandish from a first ascent perspective and as Bridwell said, they were always put together really well.
Just taking Meat Grinder as an example, I always thought that it was the most frightening route at The Cookie to think about leading before the Nabisco Wall pitches were climbed. I thought this even as I was doing other Cookie climbs which were just as steep.
For a sense of perspective, here is a list of the climbs on The Cookie, with the FA date and party. In February 1968, Royal and Lloyd climbed the left and right sides of The Cookie slab, both rated 5.9, and in March, Royal returned with TM and climbed the Meatgrinder, rated 5.10. Sometime in 1968, Royal and Galen free-climbed the Vendetta. The only other climb at The Cookie that looked less probable than The Meatgrinder , in 1968, was Pratt's Twilight Zone which had been done in 1965. The Meatgrinder certainly set the stage for those climbing in the early 70s, but I don't think it sets the stage after the Nabisco Wall was climbed.
So, I think that Royal's legacy is the combination of his climbing and his writing about the process of climbing, especially first ascents, and its relationship to the broader climbing community. Harding and Pratt both climbed stunning new routes but did not contribute to an interior understanding of putting them up. Sacherer, who changed everything, didn't say a peep. Royal's writing certainly sets him apart from all of his climbing peers, probably even today. It certainly reached many more climbers. It was not just his formal writing, it was also what he said, and didn't say, in public about climbing, climbers, and the climbing community. I cannot find the exact quote, but sometime when Summit Magazine was still the main source of climbing news, I recall Royal writing some sort of appeasement to Warren and ending it with "Now are you finally satisfied?" His exasperation was palpable. (I hope my memory is correct; I edit this if someone finds the actual quote.)
There is also a quote in one of his long interviews, I think in an early Ascent, where there was a discussion about the prospective negative effects guide books were having on climbing, and Royal offered that he liked to see his name in print. Given the public vibe of selflessness at the time, his honesty was stunning. Royal was so transparent, or seemingly so, and he thought hard about the nature of climbing and nature of our climbing community, and he wrote about it or discussed it persuasively in published interviews. Interestingly, when I was working as one of his guides, I don't recall him ever lecturing anyone on climbing ethics or greater responsibilities (I never attended any of Royal's public lectures), nor do I ever recall him making derogatory remarks about anyone. He certainly held strong views that he had thought hard about, but he established a professionalized form and tone to express them. To my memory, no other climber has come close. (This is not to say that other climbers have not done as much to support great climbing: we all benefited from Bridwell's mastery of leadership and all-inclusiveness.
I am not entirely sure of this, but I think that a modern climber could read Royal's writings and they would still resonate as issues that matter, even if climbing changed radically since those times.
On a personal note, one that I have only reflected since the NYTimes profile/obit, I realize that Royal's commitment to good writing affected me. Roper and Pratt, and my Mom, taught me to write, but Royal had cleared a path showing that writing carefully and well mattered. Even if my friends thought I was whacked for caring. I was an easy target of ridicule as I was trying to learn, but in my own private memorial to Royal, I have realized that he, in his quite way, gave me solid support, as I figured out how to wrap language around my thoughts, and how that required wrapping clarity around those thoughts.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jan 19, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
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Chouinard and Roper attempt on the Salathe Wall 1962
"Concerning the the fifth pitch which involved bold free climbing, provisionally rated at 5.10 just above some long reaches between rurps and bolts. Yvon's too short; Steve's too chickensh#t, he said without mincing words. Furious about this admittedly brilliant line, we stormed up this section in minutes. It happened to be my pitch, and I was elated."F*#k you, Robbins!" I screamed to the heavens."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 19, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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Roper, who else?^^^^^
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jan 19, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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But of course, who else!
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Jan 19, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Don't forget that Robbins did a solo ascent of the north face of Mt. Edith Cavell. Audacious and impressive.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jan 19, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Royal Royal Royal Royal Royal Royal Royal Royal Royal...................................
Roper Quotes Royal....................
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Yeti
Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
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Jan 19, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
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My understanding is that "C*#ks@cker's Concerto" was the more traditional Chuck Pratt's response to Royal's new and clean ethic involving protection, as well as a Pratt (all in good humor, of course) dig at Royal's dirt bag sophistication in naming "Nutcracker Suite." Both routes are as good and intriguing as their names.
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