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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 31, 2017 - 09:07pm PT
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Sunday's N.Y. Times Magazine (31 Dec 2017) is devoted to short pieces on noteworthy people who died in 2017. It includes Royal Robbins. Daniel Duane, the author of the piece on Royal, adheres to "Simplify, simplify, simplify, then exaggerate" which assaults my sense of the more nuanced actual history, but still, Royal's inclusion is pretty cool.
https://nyti.ms/2E6XWj4
Happy New Year
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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The subject matter they chose for the piece on Robbins is a bit of a bizarre choice. Not sure that the non-climbing NY masses will understand the story at all . Without prior knowledge of the story... it's sort of a WTF are they talking about?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dan Duane is an established writer with Outside and other mags. I think, though, that he's a bit young to comment on someone of Robbins' stature. He may well never have met RR in his climbing days.
But hell, it's a fluff piece for the holiday, so WTF. It's not like it is a serious biography. There was much more he could have written about that would satisfy the NY audience. Or the Clevelanders.
Happy New Year, Roger!
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unlocked gait
Gym climber
the range
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his was an eclectic quest.
why paint it otherwise?
who the f*#k cares about the audiences reception of the truth.
he was wiley, at heart. royal.
yea he was also a brilliant business man, which way more c#&%s could swallow; but the fella made brilliance out of the mundane.
if i were to pen a piece on the man,
i would also shelf the common and celebrate his extraordinary eccentricities.
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WBraun
climber
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it's a fluff piece for the holiday, so WTF. It's not like it is a serious biography
Yep .... that's all it is.
Why people react to every little fluff piece anyways?
NYT is a sh!ty newspaper anyways.
They've fallen off the map over 20 years ago .....
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2018 - 10:17am PT
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These are obits: right or wrong in their details, they are not fluff pieces.
I have never read anything else by Duane, as far as I know. His piece hangs on Royal's complicated relationship with Warren and weaves his story through the regular route on NW face of Half Dome, the Nose, and the Dawn Wall, ending with Royal accepting that Warren still climbed well. While this makes for a tight, symmetrical story in which the final sentences write themselves, it is a poor summary of Royal's life, reassigning Royal's laudable ability to shine a bright light on himself to some muddled notion that Warren's climbing equated to his on ideals.
As climbers, we all gained from Royal's efforts, but I don't think admitting Warren climbed well is the takeaway. We all knew that, we just didn't like his bolting. But drawing a sharp distinction between Royal and Waarren regarding bolting would not be easy: There are the inconveniences of integrating the second-ascent team of the Nose adding a bolt or the long bolt ladders on Tis-sa-ack.
I don't think Royal's dustups with Warren were the center of Royal's life or a major contribution to climbing (fortunately, climbing just moved on, well before the Dawn Wall), but I would give Duane a pass--he writes what editors want--and just feel good about those editors wanting a piece on Royal.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Roger,
I agree with your sentiments, and Happy New Year!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Werner, in your great wisdom, what newspaper should I read. Which news is valid in your opinion?
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unlocked gait
Gym climber
the range
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werner was over 20 years ago,
over.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Roger, you're correct about these being obits.
I do think you're right about the center of RR's life NOT being as Dan depicts.
I have to say both things or I won't be able to face you honestly when the time comes for the man's memorial in Modesto.
I have an open mind and am happy to engage new ideas or differences of opinion.
Hope to see you in March.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Happy New Year, Brian. Steve too.
I misread a post upthread from Mouse from Merced, missing the not. My apologies to Brian. I've modified my post so it is clear I am tilting at windmills.
In Daune's piece on Royal, there are no factual errors, as far as I can tell, (except maybe the number of bolts placed on the first ascent of the Nose were "countless"), but there are editorial phrases which shape the reader's understanding of a story line that is focused on Warren.
This makes for a good story but is not good history and is not very respectful of Royal.
Do we really think that Warren "retaliated" against Royal's first ascent of Half Dome when he started up the Nose? Do we think that the second ascent ofthe Nose was the result of Royal being "disturbed" by the style of Warren's first ascent. Pretty much everything Royal climbed, he worked to do in a better style than whatever had come before. His repeated ascents of the Steck Salathe were improvements only over his previous ascents.
Would any of us describe Warren's ascent of the Nose as "retrograde?" I think Royal is on record that Warren's ascent was pretty much the only way to climb El Cap in 1957.
For a regular reader, at its center, Daune's piece tells us Royal's climbing was driven by besting Warren, until, finally, Warren's Dawn Wall ascent was so good that Royal could not.
Daune spends a paragraph with a pretty good summary of Royal's conclusion that first ascent teams had a responsibility to the broader community. Next paragraph: Warren thought that was pompous and ridiculous. I think that is probably a fair asessment of Warren's opinion. (That said, the goal of climbing without fixing was first achieved by Warren with Chuck and Yvon on Mount Watkins, in 1964, showing that at least up until that time Warren could strive for the same styles Royal advocated. But instead of following the broad path of how the climbing community absorbed Royal's idea of the first ascent team's responsibility, the path that shows why Royal had such a huge influence on climbing style and commitment, Daune makes a bee line for Royal's reawakening on the Dawn Wall.
What about the idea that striving for a better style on every ascent, while respecting the first ascent's style, was the goal we all learned to strive for. What about clean climbing? Working out the mechanics of big wall climbing? Writing the first and maybe still the best instruction books? The first bigwall solos? First 5.9s? First 5.10s? The great routes?
From a purely personal point of view, I don't like that all of Royal's accomplishments are just the preamble to his decision to stop chopping. It is sort of a cheap shot.
That said it would be unreasonable to hold Daune solely responsible: editors can rewrite and change the meaning of author's submissions.
I see that Kevin as posted my thoughts more eloquently.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I do think you're right about the center of RR's life NOT being as Dan depicts.
Read that again, Roger. We are agreeing, I thought.
I've also thought that his life centered on his trying never to be like his stepfather nor his biological father. His rebellious nature as a young boy took the form of furthering free climbing standards with an almost in-your-face enthusiasm, as the readers of To Be Brave may see. This, in spite of his Boy Scouting.
His beatnik phase, shared with Joe Fitschen while they both served in the US Army as draftees, represents more rebelliousness.
Reading of a life is not participating in it. I cannot be an expert on RR, and I don't like it when some scholar takes on that mantle. Why should I like it when some journalist puts out "unwarrented" mention of dubious behavior by the subject? There is so much more Dan could have chosen to include.
edit: I read the MTM piece, too. There's a lot more "meat" to chew on in this piece, by comparison, IMO.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
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So sorry Brian. New, New Year's resolution: Read twice, cut once.
That said l will leave my post up with a few modifications. In writing that post, I worked through my own thoughts and have become upset at the idea of a great climber, flaws included, can so easily be diminished. It would be the same if Warren were remembered only for his 1975 first ascent of The Porcelain Wall, which he chopped as he climbed and not his great climbs.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I didn't know Royal, so won't comment on whatever personality flaws he may have had.
But there is a paragraph in that NYT piece that's just pure bullsh#t.
Harding retaliated by claiming the first ascent of El Capitan. In 45 days’ work spread over 18 months, Harding created the so-called Nose Route by keeping ropes always fixed from his high point to the ground, commuting up and down with food and wine, drilling countless bolts and basking in national publicity.
I seriously doubt that Warren Harding's desire to climb the nose was driven by a need to "retaliate" against anybody or anything. He just wanted to climb it. And, as to the whole thing being some kind of publicity stunt carried out for personal aggrandizement... I didn't know Warren, but I do know his main partner on that climb, and would suggest that all of you make it to the Oakdale Climber's Fest this fall, where I believe Wayne will be presenting a discussion/slideshow of that climb.
Might just open your eyes. It would sure as Hell open Daniel Duane's eyes.
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WBraun
climber
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I think he (Warren) lost it near the top.
I was aiding along on A1 crack, 1 inch size, and his rivets were right next to the crack, lol.
Porter said the same thing when he got there and started chopping some of em.
His partner's (Caldwell) leads were much better and you tell who lead what just by the amount of unnecessary rivets you'd encounter .....
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Interesting reactions.
Pretty much the same unknowing ignorance that we express when laypeople express opinions about climbing, I suppose.
First, a hell of a lot of people died in 2017, that they would have included Royal, when he was a person who can reasonably be said made no difference in most people's lives, is really an honor.
So what, in the very limited space allotted, does one say? Is it reasonable to report in a newspaper, what the person did that was newsworthy in their time? How would you do that? Remembering that we're all biased, an unbiased person would probably go to the newspaper record, and see what was written. Probably nothing about river kayaking. Probably nothing about being an importer of climbing gear. Understanding that if you don't write something thought to appeal to one's customers, it won't get published, do you say "better that they'd not written about him, at all"?
Perhaps Patrick can weigh in with his experience (hoping that he omits his resume, again, and how tough Maggie Thatcher is, again......)
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WBraun
climber
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He dropped all the 1 inch angles after being drunk for weeks?
Ho mannn.
I forgot to ask him about that during that winter he lived right next to me .....
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WBraun
climber
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Probably ......
Yep .... probably the whole rack was at the base by then anyways ..... :-)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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Ken M, what to write about Royal to a non-climbing readership is a good question.
Much of what Daune wrote works. What I would eliminate is the focus on Warren and sustitute Royal's dominance of Yosemite climbing for about 10 years starting in 1957. I'd tell the readers that there were lots of potential routes to climb but no clear path to decide what to climb, how to get up them safely and in what style. Robbins defined the importance of style--our rule book--and honoring the efforts of first ascents and created a flexible framework for climbing to expand its boundries.
Robbins pushed every boundry and articulated how to think the issues through. And he did it so well that the latest masterpieces, Dawn Wall all free and Salathe free solo, unthinkable in the 1950s and 1960s, still adhere to his princpals of boldness, safety and stylistic coherency.
I would start the piece with Half Dome but in 1955 when Wilson led Robbins, Gallwas, Harding on an attempt. Wilson stopped the effort because they were too slow but Robbins and Harding chaffed being told what to do.
I would include Royal's many ascents of the Steck Salathe doing more of it free and in faster times to articulate his vision and drive.
A writer could blow that trumpet as loud as decorum allows and as long as space allows. Royal's dominance was unparalleled.
This is not to say that climbing would be substantially different today but for Royal. My guess it would look pretty much the same. But if this is true, then Royal was one farsighted visionary.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Before this Duane article was published, the NY Times called me to ask if they could interview me with regard to my being Royal's belayer on the WEML.
I always find it annoying that, though I did belay Royal, he also belayed me. We swapped leads up the entire climb - at no point did either of us opt out of our next lead, nor did either of us ask to lead a particular pitch, we just alternated leads to the top.
The NY Times person told me the name of the author of the upcoming article and I replied that I sort of knew Daniel Duane. They replied, in that case, can he interview you? Of course!
I really didn't "know" Daniel Duane - what I knew was that Allan Bard had taught both Daniel and Daniel's brother how to ski and Allan had mentioned that to me many times. I had also read Daniel Duane's book "Caught Inside".
When he called me last week all he wanted to know was exactly when and what Royal said when the decision to quit chopping was made. I told him that I couldn't remember his words - that I could only say that Royal felt the climbing was harder than he gave Warren's capabilities credit for.
Duane kept pushing his own idea that Royal felt the climbing was very difficult - I can't remember any extraordinary difficulty on the entire climb - it was just El Cap nailing and I recall no difficulty with it other than dodging huge 6-foot icicles coming off the summit. Except for Royal's first bivouac decision to stop chopping, I don't remember Royal ever complaining about difficulty. It was an El Cap wall, it was not supposed to be easy.
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