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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Nov 21, 2017 - 08:53pm PT
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Another voice for Clint's stewardship.
It used to be a lot of people's first 5.10 testpiece face climb back in the day, but there's really no such thing as a 5.10- testpiece these days, as people are often climbing that hard after a few days in the gym.
Seems only fair that with all the tens of thousands of new bolts in Yosemite on harder routes, that there are more easier classic routes with decent pro, especially if there used to be a fixed piece there. There's still routes off the beaten track with some boldness if that's what folks are after (not that I ever recall Maxine's as being "bold"). One thing that might be true, that even with sticky rubber, it's probably harder now than then due to the fact that 100,000 people have climbed that route and it's probably a lot more slick.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Nov 21, 2017 - 09:47pm PT
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+1 for Clint's efforts at sustainable restoration.
As for 40 years of shared experience, I'm going to say no. Just because 40 years of people couldn't replicate the first ascentionist's intentions does not modify the FA principle deferring to the first ascentionists wrt decisions on where fixed protection is placed.
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TLP
climber
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Nov 21, 2017 - 10:07pm PT
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I've been looking at this since yesterday when the OP appeared, thinking, well I have no opinion whatsoever since I've never done the climb. But the rock in the photos looked oddly familiar. After a lot of additional posts, it hit me, yes I have done this climb! In around 1986 or 87; led it, in fact. But I haven't the slightest memory of being sketched, or what the pro was, or anything at all except it was certainly fun enough to uncoil the rope and climb it. While there was probably a specific reason for not recalling (no comment) I'm impressed that others have such clear memories of what the pro was, almost 10 years further in the misty past. Dang.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Nov 21, 2017 - 11:28pm PT
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^^ Yeah.
But to missquote Garcia + Hunter..."all the climbs combined, they melt into a dream..."
I will say that I appreciate Clint's very thoughtful approach to bolting and sharing that process with us. And, too for the time and energy given.
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Nov 21, 2017 - 11:49pm PT
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I would tend to err in favor of clint generally
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 22, 2017 - 03:50am PT
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Ray Run Out, you don't know what you're talking about when you are talking about the Flames thread, obviously, because there ARE no rules.
"They're tryin' to crucify me..."
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Nov 22, 2017 - 11:59am PT
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hard one to call here. are the first ascent party still around to ask. I got friends on either side of this one, and it is just one bolt. no reason to get the panties bunched up. i guess i would go with
not adding the bolt, because it had been that way for so long. So the pin placement blew out. if people have been dealing with it for 40 years, then let people keep dealing with it that way.
and just because the route is glassier and harder than before is no reason to go pussyfying a climb. suck it up or move on. ss
it is generally a good idea to go fixing up anchors, but adding bolts onto pitches is generally bad.
and sometimes leaving fixed pins on free pitches retains the character of the climb...case in point America's Cup, where climbing the crux above carrigan's pin is part of the excitement Replacing the pin with a bolt in this case lessens the experience.
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Nov 22, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
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what if woot man did this?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
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Nov 22, 2017 - 05:08pm PT
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This was one of my first leads outta the gym and I was styling it pretty well for a newb...
-till I fell right before the first bolt!
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Nov 22, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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Did this back in 1985 w Jordy.
Sorry, but after climbing in Dresden last summer I must say this crap should stop clint. Man up or go home.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Nov 22, 2017 - 07:41pm PT
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Rock climbing is flat out dangerous. When you step off the ground you are on your own. If folks have been doing a certain climb without a bolt for 40 + years, it’s probably ok the way it is. For the record I first did this in 1980. Big deal. Now puke.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2017 - 07:50pm PT
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When you step off the ground you are on your own.
No, you are NOT, and have never been and nor never will be EVER!
There is always protection.
Even the free soloist has it.
Whether one lives or dies in that moment that protection is always there for everyone.
There is no such thing as one life only ........
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:01pm PT
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I did it late-70s in EBs. I'm thinking that the shoes today are better than a replacement for the missing fixed pin. Or, treat it like a highball to the first bolt.
But I don't have a chisel to grind on the subject. Accessibility seems to matter more than boldness these days. Nobody should get hurt climbing.
Woot!
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bishop
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Does anyone have contact info for Les Wilson or Al Macdonald?
Thanks, Tony
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feb 16, 2018 - 10:21am PT
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This is an old topic but some data points in my mind are:
Yes, it's plain that there was probably a fixed pin down low but now the rock broke where it was.
The first bolt has been replaced and unfortunately was replaced a bit higher than the original placement, requiring another cruxy move to clip it.
The rest of that pitch is well protected so I'm kinda ok with having a decently protected fun slab climb in that location for people waiting for serenity to play with, particularly since it was put up with good pro.
Do the rest of Maxine's wall if you want some excitement. It's definitely a strange trip
Peace
Karl
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Feb 16, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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If I led it for my first 5.10a lead in 1973, you can bet your life Maxine's Wall wasn't very hard or bold, even back then. Sounds as though old popular Yo free routes are entering what the art critics call, the "Mannerist" phase. A step beyond the Baroque.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 16, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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^^^ Brilliant comment, imo.
Thank you, Bruce.
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Feb 16, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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If you don't need or want the bolt..... Just keep on going without clipping it!!!!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 16, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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^^^ Where do you see me telling people how to climb?
Or, are you just drunk again, which seems to always kick you into the mode of "fvck with Richard" whenever you find an opportunity?
BTW, it's all useless, including your own comments.
I happened to think that Bruce's were insightful and subtle. Didn't you?
Oh, right. Drunk again, so unable to detect subtlety. Sorry.
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