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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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Dec 10, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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Blinny, I agree. Sorry if my reading skills SUCKED. SOme of those old boards were sweet for screewing around on. I left the XCD's for a pair fo yellow top sheet Karhu's, then Kazama mountains and outbacks... I also remember loving my BD Telesauvage, espresso's and tout neiges. Wish I still had em. Plastic boots snapped all of em...
winter is here, cheers...
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roslyn
Trad climber
washington
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Dec 10, 2006 - 02:09pm PT
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Another yeah for ski resort skiing. My home resort, red mountain resort, is also my bread and butter. I'm a part-time instructor, but my full-time job is promo of back country adventures/avi courses/ that are sold at the hill. Not many folks argue in bounds vs. out of bounds here cause the back country skiiers use the lift to get into the back country. There's room for both.
The best part of red is that the majority of skiing at the hill is "Off-piste", killer steeps and tons of tree skiing............there's my sales pitch for the day!!!!!!!!
But, like Ekat, i love a good groomer, corduroy day!
ps., i'm all for keeping jumbo wild. We've got enough resorts in the area!!!!!
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quartziteflight
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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Deucey,
That's a very interesting story. Supporting local family operations is probably the way to go. Development mongers seem to be a pretty scummy bunch. Maybe it's different in the west, but in the east most of the people appointed to oversee zoning regs are developers. A while back I met this guy who sold condos at ski resorts, I tried bringing up the development issue to him. He looked at me like I'd just killed and eaten his first born right before his eyes.
Hi Karl,
I'm no ethical purist by any means, but you bring up an interesting point about accesabliity. Do you think by having easy access people understand and have a sense of respect for the venerablity of the outdoors? I've worked in a couple of national parks and I don't see people comming away with a sense of respect. Maybe some do, but I think most people just compartmentalize and go back to their daily wasteful routines? Look at easily accessable crags. Trash, graffiti, retrobolters, dogs run amok, obnoxous kids...Maybe I'm just focusing on the negative attributes, but when you see a flare in the night it's hard to look the other way....
Roslyn,
Let me see if I understand you correctly. People who backcountry ski take the lifts, and just ski or do they skin from where they're dropped off? Have enough resorts? hmm, sounds like cya policly..;-)
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quartziteflight
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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Photoposters,
Nice pics, could you guys just post links? Pretty please with dirty south suga on top? Because, I don't think I'm in the only punter rock'n the 26bps dial up...
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 10, 2006 - 05:36pm PT
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Sewellymon,
I used to work at Kratka Ridge just east of Waterman. Taught skiing and ski patrolled there for a few years. After that I was on Pro Patrol at Mt Baldy. Nothing in So Cal can hold a candle to Baldy as far as terrain is concerned. I patrolled there for 15 years. Fun atmosphere, way layed back and great skiing when there is snow.
Buckhorn is the little area east of Waterman. I still see tracks up there from time to time. Unfortunately there is a large tract of backcountry area near Waterman that is now closed because of some frog. Step out of your car in the wrong place and you face a hefty fine. Damn frogs!
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Dec 10, 2006 - 08:10pm PT
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The last issue of ski magazine had a classic photo and short interview with Sun Valley, and one time Tahoe local Dick Dierdorf [sp?]. The photo was of Dick with long hair and beard smothered in snow shredding in Verbier. His comments centered around the corporate ski mentality that has ruined skiing culture. Many of his comments directly reflect the reality that resort skiing is a rich mans pursuit. What was once a sport that families could participate in,now is out of reach for many.
The art of ski bumming is also a victim of the corporate culture of skiing. Mtn. Towns now are filled with giant homes that remain empty, and homes continue to rise in price even though the bubble has burst in many markets. High mortgages mean higher rent, makinng it nearly impossible to ski because you are to busy trying to pay rent. In order to survive people need second or third jobs just to live in these communities. In my own town people working "professional" jobs cannot afford to buy a home. With many jobs its almost an assumed understanding that because you live in such a beautiful spot your wage can be lower, the teachers in my town are third lowest paid educators in California, and continue to struggle to get propper compensation.
Corporations have taken over ski resorts but there will always be locals that take over the mtn. on a powder day. I ski the resort for the pure vert. per run, something I could never achieve hiking. I ski the backcountry for a feeling of legitimacy, its the mountains and anything can happen.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Dec 10, 2006 - 08:11pm PT
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I believe that this isw a fine example of what deuce is talking about:
http://pioneer.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=QkRDLzIwMDYvMDYvMDIjQXIwMDEwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom
"The Yellowstone Club is a gated community south of Big Sky, with many huge homes valued at $10 million or more apiece, private golf, skiing and other amenities. When fully built out, it will contain a maximum of 864 homes on 13,400 acres.
Blixseth also last week launched a “Yellowstone Club World,” which will offer millionaires exclusive access to eight posh vacation properties like castles, islands and ranches, plus yachts and jets. "
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
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"I'm no ethical purist by any means, but you bring up an interesting point about accesabliity. Do you think by having easy access people understand and have a sense of respect for the venerablity of the outdoors? I've worked in a couple of national parks and I don't see people comming away with a sense of respect. Maybe some do, but I think most people just compartmentalize and go back to their daily wasteful routines? Look at easily accessable crags. Trash, graffiti, retrobolters, dogs run amok, obnoxous kids...Maybe I'm just focusing on the negative attributes, but when you see a flare in the night it's hard to look the other way.... "
I"m living in a National Park now and supporting environmental causes and Ideas because my parents took me camping in Yosemite when i was a kid. Skiing and crowded national parks are gateway drugs. They expose you to a taste of it.
Expecting folks to start with backcountry skiing and wilderness climbing is a stretch. Only the choir gets reached but nobody gets converted that wasn't already there. I think these places have their role.
Peace
Karl
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Dec 10, 2006 - 09:09pm PT
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Here's an article I wrote for the local newspaper, The Pagosa Springs Sun, about the endangered lynx population which will be impacted by the McCoombs development on Wolf Creek Pass:
http://www.deuce4.net/web/1027Lynx.pdf
It includes a map of the ski area and the McCoombs inholding, and their relationship to the lynx habitat.
The amazing thing is that even though the Fish and Wildlife determined that roughly 25% of the Lynx population were going to be killed by direct impacts caused by the development, they still gave the project the green light. Colorado Wild has sued based on improper conduct by Federal officials, the lawsuits are still pending.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Dec 10, 2006 - 09:11pm PT
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Karl, I heartily agree with you. In the early 80's I was complaining to my buddy about all the people who were suddenly cropping up in the mountains near my home, skiing, climbing, biking, hiking etc. He told me that he welcomed it because it was a sign that more and more people were experiencing the outdoors and appreciating them. His thought was that this would in the big picture be a positive thing on the political level. I am not sure that has come about but I dont see any other way to have an impact on difficult conservation issues.
edit:
Interesting John.
In Southern Oregon the proposed resort of Pelican Butte was stopped because the EIS said that the resort would negatively impact the spotted owl and other endangered species.
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=4759
This was interesting because I bet that this area, Pelican Butte, is much more remote and has a much larger natural buffer zone that most places in Colorado. However, the Environmental Reg.s are federal and are obviously not followed in a standard way. This of course leads one to think about the political process and influence of developers on a scientific process. Certainly not new news but disconcerting all the same.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:07pm PT
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Just for eKat:
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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I used to ski San Antonio from the top down or from West Baldy every year, sometimes multiple times per season starting way back with a pair of 220 cm Epoke 600s in the early 70s, later Karhus. The tips on the Epokes do pick up a funky vibration if you try to push them very fast.
I don't have enough confidence to do it solo anymore and since it's a goofy foot mountain I can never get anyone to go back for a second helping.
Any volenteers if we get any snow? ( a big if!)
Last time we skied into Tuolumne I reverted to the 30 year old skis and relished the lightness of the setup.
E kat, I thought I had the last set of working Epokes in existence.
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roslyn
Trad climber
washington
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:40pm PT
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quartzflighte, backcountry access from red mountain is just a ride away on the motherlode chair and a 20 minute hike up mt. roberts, wolf ridge, grey mtn etc. Many back country skiers are regular lift access riders too. It's a wonderful blend of both here/
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:49pm PT
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Interesting article, good work, John.
The Forest service/Ski area jerrymandering I am most familiar happened in Vail. Vail associates wanted to expand the behmoth south to what is now Blue ski basin; acknowledged Lynx habitat. To allow this they were able to pull a bait and switch. They 'closed' the mushroom bowl, a popular out of bounds, lift serviced area, roughly between the the china bowl area and East vail. Most of the runs channel back to the ski area, but some end near city bus stops. There are runs there older than the whole ski area. [¿Clearly the Lynx would prefer the shoehorned slice of steep grade replete with famous ice climbs to the open land beyond?] Putting up 'warning lynx habitat, stay out,' signs bought them the rights to develop the true lynx terrain to the south. Lifts, various facilities, and rocky ground that let the resort claim more total acerage, were the achieved goal.
Then there is the question of who really burned down the Two Elks Lodge and how the resort just happened to get to quadruple that building's size in the rebuild. But that's a different story.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:50pm PT
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Check this out. I never had purely wooden XC Skiis, but I picked up some like brand new that look awesome and I need to learn how to base prep them. Then I need some leather three pin boots, wool pants. Damn! This is gonna be fun.
http://www.woodenskis.com/wood_waxing.htm
for you blinny!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 10, 2006 - 11:13pm PT
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Where can you even find pine tar any more?
I'm not quite ready to nail my Epokes to the garage yet. When the rocket scientist recovers from his hip replacement and if I can talk him into it, I want to use them for the first geriatric trans sierra.
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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Dec 11, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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Resorts are the gateway drug to the outdoors for kids and the middle class/wealthy. Like visiting Yosemite Valley, skiing in resorts helps get people started on valuing the outdoor experience, and eventually, the environment
have to reswpectfully disagree. most of these people see a ski hill as a means to a hedonistic end. doubt they even notice the environment.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Dec 11, 2006 - 10:15am PT
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Gotta start somewhere.
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