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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 25, 2016 - 08:37am PT
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Hey Jim,
You mentioned using a 6mm tag line for raps. Do you bring a small pack for the tag line and extra gear?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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May 25, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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May 25, 2016 - 09:43am PT
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Jim,
No doubt that extreme minimalism holds true for someone as expert and accomplished as you, and your words are very wise.
But I am not as accomplished and I am very much slower.
I have carried approach shoes on several multi-pitch climbs just for the comfort of the long walk-off (The climbs were not particularly hard, so packing extra did not impact much), and some light weight rain gear for potential afternoon showers. Hydrating before climbing helps with water weight.
An alpine (early) start and efficient belay turn-arounds have always been a more important element for me.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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May 25, 2016 - 09:55am PT
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Jim--i learned quite a bit from John Bouchard years back,,still sticks with me because it works and makes sense
Old fashioned ? antiquated ? Maybe..whatever
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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May 25, 2016 - 09:58am PT
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The generalizations of the OP are vacuous at best and dangerous at worst imho.
I think you're the one dog-piling here.
I tend to be pretty slow, but I still think the age-old "take only what you need", is not only a great principle for safety, but when possible it makes the climbing that much more fun. I've learned that from personal experience.
I didn't read Donini telling everyone that this is the only way to climb, but certainly it should be aspired to in many situations, alpine climbing being one obvious example. And to get this advice from someone as experienced and accomplished as Donini is, is one of the truly great things about ST. I've climbed for a pretty long time myself, and I'm open to any advice I would be fortunate enough to get from Mr. Donini, at the very least for consideration.
You know Madbolter, for all of the years that you were wrongly slagged on, one might think you'd be a little slower to do it to someone else.
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brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 10:07am PT
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I think having a lot of gear just provides mental security sometimes.
Security that you won't run out of gear and have to do a heinous runout.
Seems like I end up in the heinous runout category most times.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2016 - 10:18am PT
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I climb a lot, in many different areas and have for quite a few years. I have noticed trends....one has been more people ,usually newer climbers, carrying too much gear, much of it extraneous. There are more climbers than ever before and their gym training has made them stronger and more capable of pulling off hard moves. But, gyms don't teach the kind of things that I am addressing.
All I want is for newer climbers to think carefully about what they need for multi pitch and then decide, thru experience, what works for them. If I can shorten the learning process by dint of lessons I have learned over many years, I will have succeeded.
It seems to me that a forum like ST with it's population of experienced climbers provides more value in passing on some hard learned lessons than in the pontification of personal religious/political views.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2016 - 10:19am PT
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The only place you need a lot of gear is where the leg loops meet the waist band.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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May 25, 2016 - 10:36am PT
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thread drift: ^^^^ she is my 2 nephews godmother, no joke.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
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I have noticed trends....one has been more people ,usually newer climbers, carrying too much gear, much of it extraneous
I need a lot of big gear on Generator Direct variation. It make redundant belayer and wait training
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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May 25, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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I agree with Robert L's post about carb loading before a big climb. Hydrating properly for at least a full day before (not just chugging a litter before you leave the car, which you'll piss out 30 min later) and eating lots of salty foods and carbs, can add pounds to your body's water-weight. Which is pounds of water you don't have to take on the climb.
I got kind of f*#ked on the Prow because of a failure to do this. I had a little over a gallon of water, which would normally be more than enough for the 13 hours I spent on the wall, but three pitches up I realized I was on pace to drink all of it less than halfway up the route. I had to ration water the rest of the climb and was sooo damn thirsty the whole time. On the flip side, I've climbed within a pitch of the top of the Column without drinking any water since the car, and wasn't even the least bit thirsty. The difference is I did the Prow right after Facelift and had been getting drunk every night for a week without hydrating properly during the day.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
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Often the gear weight question is dominated by which big cams to bring (if any).
And whether you can get down with one rope (and how long a rope).
Fortunately, warm hats and modern headlamps are light, and rain is often well predicted (but not always).
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 25, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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Sometimes, BigBros are a great alternative or mix with cams for the wide.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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May 25, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Donini always seems to make a point...
flavored by his own brand of elitism.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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May 25, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
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I think mr donini is gravely insulting the sizable industry thats trying to coerce us into buying shiny dangly bullshit and ram the dogma of more is better down our throats.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 25, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
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On some very long crack pitches I am not afraid to pile on the rack as I feel if I have gear I am not afraid to go for it. Sometimes I needed it sometimes I didn't but I have not finished a pitch or two for lack there of. I will say the longer the route the more of what you are saying is true. You may want to wait to do a long route at your limit until you feel comfortable running it out a bit.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
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You never know. BITD a friend was on some long crack on the Cookie. He
was running out of gas so he decided to go for the ledge rather than hang
around fiddling with Hexes. He slapped the ledge but its resident codger
wasn't having it and instantly evicted him. He took a good 50 footer for
his rashness although the fall proved the least of his worries. I saw him
a year later in a bar in Seattle and he could barely hold a pool cue.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
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I thought I needed google auto-translate subtitles for the following discussion, but I'm not sure it made a difference. I guess really don't need it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 25, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
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Reilly, What climb? What pitch?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
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Mark, I'm lucky that I can remember it was the Cookie!
Since I wasn't there I don't think I ever knew. All I know
is that upon hearing the story first hand I instantly developed
a morbid fear of slapping ledges sight unseen. That's why I
liked climbing in Alaska.
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