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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
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Will Do John...she is in England with Rachael (daughter), her husband, who is a brit and the grandchild.
John G wrote: God bless Medicare!
Or LBJ :-)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What constitutes a "living wage," and why should Walmart pay it to a majority of its employees?
The whole concept of a "living wage" is Marxist fantasy. We want the government to tell business what their supposed to pay people?
Minimum wage jobs are not supposed to support a family, but an entry-level worker. Usually a young, first-time worker who needs to gain skills to work up the ladder of success.
It is the bottom rung.
To artificially increase the minimum wage is to remove the incentive for people to strive to increase their skills and increase their demand in the market of jobs.
EDIT: Ward is correct about Pikkety, the dude is to the left of Krugman...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jgill and JohnEZ have some interesting observations. Along those lines, the Fed Chairwoman, who noted the other day that the demographics of retires coming as the boomers stop working, will cause some serious budgetary restraints than seen in this country previously. The FED has bought more of the US borrowed debt than ever in our history, and this leaves us in bad uncharted territory. We are deeply in debt, as a country, to them. Never been here before like this.
It looks similar to this but now stretches out to $17 trillion, whereas this was $9t.
Those of us are calling for a balanced budget know (and often being yelled at by "progressives" as reactionaries) are wondering this: if we can't get our countries financial house in order now when things are relatively well off (go look at the coming wave of upsidedown demographics to see what well off might not be), what the heck is the future going to bring? Apparently there is no stopping the beast until it is too late. And we will not know it's too late until it's really to late it appears.
PS, if Elmo was to update the chart to today, each citizen would owe over $55,000. That number includes non-taxpayers. Each citizen. In reality you, the US taxpayer (if you take out the non-worker/non-taxpayers), currently owe $151,233 per the US debt clock. Going up.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Well done USA. Behind Poland. But at least we're ahead of the Czech Republic and Switzerland.
We're not quite 3d world yet, but we're trying hard.
Hmm... so, have educational outcomes gotten better or worse since the feds have taken the reins of public education? See any trends here?
And we were all just told that "we" (meaning the people that actually do pay taxes) are now required to educate EVERY kid, regardless of immigration status.
Yippie! So now, classrooms that are already too full, overseen by teachers that are already underpaid and disrespected, using budgets that are already too small, can expect to see a fresh influx of waves of more kids... kids, I might add, whose parents teach them by example to defy legal authority and that if you do this long enough a magic wand will be waved to make it all okay.... And these waves upon waves of kids "will" be "educated" according to the standards of what is possible.
Yeah, goody! Effective education is at the core of this nation's long-term prosperity and status, and we see what we get from the feds. Just goody!
(Oh, btw, I'm not giving a pass to the employers that employ illegals; they should be suffering at least huge fines for creating this shadow economy.)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Interest rates is a big one.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
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Bluring wrote: The whole concept of a "living wage" is Marxist fantasy. We want the government to tell business what their supposed to pay people?
Yes, that is why all other first world countries have one.
And you are to the right of Limbaugh.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Wow, I'm now in a discussion with three of my all-time climbing heroes (Bob D'A, jgill and FredC). Who said political threads on ST were worthless, again?
Anyway, work is intruding in my fun, so these are my parting shots for a while:
1. Dob D'A, what factors of production led to the increase in productivity? It was largely increased capital expenditures that made workers more productive, so it should not surprise you that the rate of return on capital increased, in addition to the relative supply of labor and capital.
2. The idea that supporting the Democratic Party is the best strategy of those with lower incomes assumes that those with lower incomes need the government to increase their well-being more than they need governmental policies that foster upward mobility. Not everyone with lower incomes will remain with lower incomes. Rational economic actors look at their long-term welfare. The policies of the Democrats and the Republicans both tend to try to preserve aspects of the economic the status quo, but the Democrats' policies are particularly guilty of that sin. The world changes. Those who recognize this fact respond better than those building sand castles trying to hold back the tide.
3. Even with defined contribution plans, one can have a steady income in retirement simply by using the proceeds of his or her retirement plan to buy an annuity contract. Of course, the amount of payment may not be to the retiree's liking, but that really means that the funder of the plan did not pay in enough on a current basis to justify the amount the retiree expected. Self-funded defined benefit plans are simply IOU's, and as this former bankruptcy lawyer knows too well, not all IOU's are worth their face amount. I've represented many private and union pension funds. Most were well-run, and also were properly funded by current contributions in an amount necessary to maintain actuarial balance.
Unfortunately, many employers -- particularly, but not exclusively, public employers under the control of union-elected politicians -- do not set aside sufficient current assets to fund defined benefit plans.
In a way, the defined benefit plan caught the disease of most public benefits, namely that they are paid for by current workers. Any decline in the working population leads to much higher costs per worker to support existing benefits. The western European welfare state already feels the effects of a decline in its working population. It happens to any Ponzi scheme sooner or later.
4. I question whether unions are really responsible for keeping private sector workers in the middle class. They make a marginal difference, but manufacturing jobs became middle class when Henry Ford figured out how to manufacture automobiles for a price that people could afford. He raised the wages so that he could attract workers from the farm to the city, and established employer-paid health care so his workers would stay healthy. Still, I have no quarrel with private sector unions, if that's what the employees want. I personally wouldn't want to work in an industry with union contracts only because they tend to pay in lock step rather than based on individual merit and effort.
Don't get me started on public employee unions, however.
5. I find the explanation that Walmart can pay lower wages because it is owned by one of the elite US families laughable. The Walton family were nobodies when they started their business. Steve Wozniak was a classmate of mine at U.C. Berkeley. Apple Computer came about because of what the Steves did, not because of what they already owned. The American economy changes, and the identity of "the 1%" remains in flux. They just form a convenient whipping boy so politicians of a particular party can say their earnings are evil without being on the hook for improving the lives of the American people generally.
Ciao, for now.
John
P.S.
OK, I lied:
Their method of selling things at low prices is based entirely on exploitation of low wage labor, at home and overseas. Not to mention entering communities and wiping out their retailing.
[Emphasis supplied]
That's what I meant by trying to preserve the status quo. Walmart "wipes out their retailing" because shoppers prefer to shop at Walmart. Those who can't compete cry "foul," but don't give consumers value for the dollar difference.
This scenario has existed at least as long as the Slaughter House Cases. The Robinson-Patman Act was designed to protect competitors, not competition. And so it goes.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Bob, do those other first-world countries have the non-discretionary debt that we have every year? Year after year? On the scale of our country. Look at Couchmaster's above graphs. Even Elmo gets it, man.
But again, I'll reiterate that it is not the role of gov't to dictate WAGE-RATES to private businesses. That is no longer a free-market.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
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John L wrote: 1. Dob D'A, what factors of production led to the increase in productivity? It was largely increased capital expenditures that made workers more productive, so it should not surprise you that the rate of return on capital increased, in addition to the relative supply of labor and capital.
Why didn't wages increase??
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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Blue wrote: Bob, do those other first-world countries have the non-discretionary debt that we have every year? Year after year? On the scale of our country. Look at Couchmaster's above graphs. Even Elmo gets it, man.
No..they actually don't go to war and not pay for it and they also tax the wealthy at a fair rate.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Bob, if you read our Constitution, one of the primary responsibilities of the US gov't is the common defense of our country. The military.
It was somewhat understaffed after Pearl Harbor, but we managed to prevail against a 2-pronged attack. Nazis and Japs.
Military spending should always be at the top of the list for the FEDERAL gov't. Unfortunately, people were forced into the Pyramid Scheme of Social Security before the genius advent of the 401k.
The gov't cannot be trusted with your savings, they're spending it. Maybe healthcare would also be more affordable if it was truly privatized while the gov't let you keep more of your money?
Gov't is in charge of our retirement cash and our healthcare, what could go wrong there?
The one thing the US gov't does well is military. Only because it abides by it's own strict rules.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
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Blu wrote: Gov't is in charge of our retirement cash and our healthcare, what could go wrong there?
Oh like in 2008.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Yes, Bob. Exactly.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Read the rest.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Walmart.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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That's fine, Fort.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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... genius advent of the 401k.
By far that must have been one of the hardest things for you to say with a straight face. The 401K is a tax exemption that mostly only the affluent can take advantage of. People lost their pensions, and got to put some of their own money money into the Wall Street casino instead. Companies love the 401k, which should be a good sign that workers got screwed.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Walmart.
No, just creating an environment where there are fewer and fewer decent alternative. It is like providing someone nothing but gruel to someone and saying you aren't forcing them to eat it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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By far that must have been one of the hardest things for you to say with a straight face. The 401K is a tax exemption that mostly only the affluent can take advantage of. People lost their pensions, and got to put some of their own money money into the Wall Street casino instead. Companies love the 401k, which should be a good sign that workers got screwed.
Only the affluent can access a 401k, really? I had started my 401k when I was making under 50 grand. And you can invest in bonds, not stocks.
You'd trust the gov't with your cash over your own decisions?
EDIT: No, just creating an environment where there are fewer and fewer decent alternative. It is like providing someone nothing but gruel to someone and saying you aren't forcing them to eat it.
Ask yourself what did that. High corporate taxes led to off-shoring, and Chinese price-controls.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Then why did the bulk of it occur after Bush cut the tax rates to the bone?
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