Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
|
|
Now the ball is in the court of the Federal Reserve, Bob, and they are petrified at allowing interest rates to climb to normal levels, causing the stock market to collapse.
The rich do indeed get richer.
;>(
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
The true job creators are the consumers. If we the people do not spend or cannot spend what will the 1% eventually have?
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
Indentured servants?
|
|
Ward Trotter
Trad climber
|
|
We are living in a economic time , an adjustment period, in which capital is outpacing overall economic output.
There have been other periods like this in the history of this country.
The key thing here is to understand that in such transitional periods radical political forces will always seek to take advantage of the situation and--if they are allowed to--- set poor against rich, class against class-- in order to exploit class envy and hatred. A formula that produces neither wealth or egalitarianism.
These attempts always end up throwing the baby out with the bath water and condemning everyone to eventual tyranny and poverty.
No one wins.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
George Santayana
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Now the ball is in the court of the Federal Reserve, Bob, and they are petrified at allowing interest rates to climb to normal levels, causing the stock market to collapse.
I agree that the Fed has the ball, John, but they are under tremendous pressure to keep interest rates low because of what an increase in interest rates would do to governmental budgets, not the stock market. In the market, you can make money as a bull, but you can make money as a bear, too. You just can't make money as a pig.
The government, on the other hand, is sustaining its spending solely because it can borrow at an effectively zero interest rate. It has no way to make money if interest rates rise.
As to the substance of the article, we've had enough debate elsewhere. I'll simply say this: when top marginal rates were confiscatory, taxpayers engaged in numerous business activities whose sole purpose was to shelter income. Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman? When the marginal rates dropped, the tax shelters became uneconomic and it became cheaper to pay the tax. Not surprisingly, the share of taxes paid by those with the highest incomes rose.
But that's irrelevant to the politics of envy.
John
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
I'm afraid that the old way of doing things is never going to work. By propping up this ever-more complex and unworkable edifice, we are ensuring a complete and total collapse.
Perhaps this is good that we will be unable to build something new and good and true from the crumbling and useless foundations of self and greed and fear.
What ever truly lasts? If we can figure this out, then there is our foundation.
Did I really just say that?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
In 1945 Germany was a third world country. Granted, they had some help, but it appears they
pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Just an observation.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
|
JohnE...I don't envy the rich, I despise what they have done to this country. They want it all and leave nothing for the rest.
"Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman?"
When did they ever pay 90 percent??
Good try John...
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
Over several decades we outsourced our production capabilities to the global community
. We became a fat lazy consumer economy fueled by excessive debt from personal to soverign. Our economy is now mainly a service economy augmented with a dwindling lead in R&D and the manipulations of the financial sector. We didn't need more laws, just enforcement of existing laws which were largely ignored in the runup of the collapse of 2008. Instead of taking the pain then and fundamentally reorganizing our economy to a more rational basis we indefinitely extended the pain through huge deficit spending and Fed reserve trickery. Now were in the pickle Jgill mentioned; healthy growth in GDP would lead to higher interest rates and collapse of our ability to continue borrowing to fund the phony economy, that's something the Fed truly fears. It will be quite a feat for the government to manage a soft landing, in the end I don't see it happening.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
set poor against rich, class against class-- in order to exploit class envy and hatred
"progressive" politics 101
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
World educational ratings by the Economist Intelligence Unit
1. South Korea
2. Japan
3. Singapore
4. Hong Kong
5. Finland
6. UK
7. Canada
8. Netherlands
9. Ireland
10. Poland
11. Denmark
12. Germany
13. Russia
14. United States
15. Australia
16. New Zealand
17. Israel
18. Belgium
19. Czech Republic
20. Switzerland
#14.
Well done USA. Behind Poland. But at least we're ahead of the Czech Republic and Switzerland.
We're not quite 3d world yet, but we're trying hard.
|
|
AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
when top marginal rates were confiscatory, taxpayers engaged in numerous business activities whose sole purpose was to shelter income. Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman? When the marginal rates dropped, the tax shelters became uneconomic and it became cheaper to pay the tax. Not surprisingly, the share of taxes paid by those with the highest incomes rose.
Regardless of what the top marginal tax rates are, taxpayers will engage in numerous activities and lobbying whose sole purpose is to shelter income. Romney had to release his returns because he wanted to be president; he paid an effective tax rate of 13.9% and I’ll bet if he could find a way to pay less he would.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Apparently whoever concocted those ratings didn't consult Werner.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
|
|
Good point, JE. A collapse of the market would drag us back into a recession (more pronounced than the one we are currently in) and thus drive rates back down. The economist Thomas Piketty has observed that when the rate of return on capital is higher than the economy's growth rate capital income will rise faster than wages and salaries. And in 2010 the richest ten percent owned seventy percent of all the wealth. He is of the opinion that what has occurred in the last century is an anomaly - wages growing faster than capital income - and that the reverse is the normal mode. Not good news!
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
Stop enabling the 1%. Vote with your wallet.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
|
"Stop enabling the 1%. Vote with your wallet. "
That is the point, we have pennies and they have millions. Who is going win??
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!